Systems after 2NT-3R
#1
Posted 2015-May-31, 13:27
My partner and I are currently having an epic discussion about methods over 2NT-3R transfer, and I'd like to request your input - basically, "what do you play":
- does 2NT-3R; 3M (complete transfer) promise a fit?
- superaccepts - do they promise 4 cards, and are they cues or trick sources, etc?
- is 2NT-3R; 3M-4x a cuebid or natural second suit (5-5)?
- any opinions on why one scheme may be better than another?
- do you vary your system for pairs vs teams and according to NT range?
Assume a two-point 2NT range starting at 20 (20-21, 22-23, etc) and Puppet or 5-card Stayman.
Thanks,
ahydra
#2
Posted 2015-May-31, 13:53
Not finding a suitable method where a natural 4m can be used both as a slam try and as a precursor to ace asking (tell me if you play one), I am currently playing 4♣ as a slam try transfer to diamonds (accepting gives the ace response, denial bids 4♦ whereafter 4♥ can still be ace asking), and 4♦ is a direct ace ask in clubs.
I don't see that a cue bid is much use; you expect partner to be able to cue anything.
#3
Posted 2015-May-31, 14:05
- 3♥ = NAT Normal action with 2-3♥s
- 3♠ = NAT 5 ♠s & 2 ♥s.
- 3N = ART 4+ ♥s . Responder normally retransfers with 4♦ other bids are RKCB or shortage.
- 4♣ = ART 4+ ♥s less enthusiastic.
After say 2N - 3♦ - 3♥ - ??
- 3♠ = PUP to 3N. Opener, with 3♥s can bid 4♣ if max or 4♥s otherwise.
- 3N = ART 4 ♠s & 5 ♥s. Opener can pass or correct to 4♥ or 4♠. 4♣/4♦ show enthusiasm for ♥/♠.
- 4m = NAT F1 or you can invert their meanings.
#4
Posted 2015-May-31, 14:25
2N-3♦
3♥ = nothing special
3N = min 4 card ♥ support
4♥ = max 4 card ♥ support
New suit = at least Hxx ♥, HHxxx in suit bid H=AKQ
Over 2N-3♥ is very similar
#5
Posted 2015-May-31, 15:21
just play completion as fit showing. then next step = balanced slam try and anything else = shortage slam try. responder's shape is much more important than whatever opener could hope to convey.
2nt-3d-3s = 5s+1-2h. perhaps you don't need this, depending which version of 5 card stayman you play, but i would never play any version of 5 card stayman over 2n, so i do need it.
#6
Posted 2015-May-31, 15:39
wank, on 2015-May-31, 15:21, said:
just play completion as fit showing. then next step = balanced slam try and anything else = shortage slam try. responder's shape is much more important than whatever opener could hope to convey.
2nt-3d-3s = 5s+1-2h. perhaps you don't need this, depending which version of 5 card stayman you play, but i would never play any version of 5 card stayman over 2n, so i do need it.
This is nice method, but only really works if played in conjunction with 4-card Stayman (and Smolen). If played with 5-card Stayman, then there's no way to investigate both a 4-4 spade fit and a 5-3 hearts fit when Responder is 4-5 in the majors. Some pairs solve this problem by having Opener break to 3♠ with 4-2 in the majors, but this method suffers from information leakage and also seems to make it difficult to unscramble all of the hand types.
#7
Posted 2015-May-31, 16:06
#8
Posted 2015-June-01, 05:16
Having four-card support IMO doesn't mandate a SA by opener, although some players do; that's fine, just not my cup of tea.
After a transfer, a new suit by responder is something I've always played as natural and slammish. I can understand why someone might want to play that as a cuebid but I think it's more productive to show a trick source.
#9
Posted 2015-June-01, 09:24
#10
Posted 2015-June-01, 10:22
North: ♠ Q J x x x ♥ x x ♦ K Q J x ♣ x x
South; ♠ A K x ♥ A J ♦ A x x x ♣ A x x x
#11
Posted 2015-June-01, 11:51
nige1, on 2015-June-01, 10:22, said:
North: ♠ Q J x x x ♥ x x ♦ K Q J x ♣ x x
South; ♠ A K x ♥ A J ♦ A x x x ♣ A x x x
Yup, we only do it with a 5 card side suit so there won't be a 4-4 fit missed.
#12
Posted 2015-June-01, 15:53
Superaccept is 4M when all other suits are controlled, or cheaper cue otherwise.
For minors we play transfer, cheaper NT = not interested (doubleton), others = answers in steps like to RKCB.
Again, this is probably less than for an expert but for average+ it works, is simple to use and is quite easy to remember.
#13
Posted 2015-June-01, 23:50
apollo1201, on 2015-June-01, 15:53, said:
My experience has more cases where we end up sneaking home 3S in a 5/3 fit vs going down in an entry-less 2NT. Or even worse, making a lucky 4S in a 5/4 fit with 2NT still in trouble. Passing 2NT on weak hands with a 5c major just doesn't feel right to me.
#14
Posted 2015-June-02, 04:21
3♠ = balanced cog or clubs or 1-suited and slammy
3NT = 4 spades, cog
4♣ = diamonds
4♦ = 5-5 majors
Obviously this assumes you can handle 5♥4♠ slammy hands through Puppet, which should be easy enough but not everyone does. Some alternative artificial uses for 3♠ here are to differentiate between 4 and 5 card side minor suits or to initiate cue bidding. Once you deal with the 5♥4♠ hands through 3♣ and 3♦ - 3♥ - 3NT, the options increase greatly.
After a spade transfer and acceptance there is not the space for such tricks but a 4♥ rebid is available for something else when the major 2-suiter is covered elsewhere - a decent option is to use this as a one-suited slam try.
The best method of transfer breaks I can remember seeing was developed by a group of American players - they gave it some named based on flags and something else but I can't remember. It was published in the English Bridge magazine a few years ago though so check your back copies. The basic idea was that the super-accepts should show specific points, critically not only trump length and a side feature but also a specific number of controls. I think there was actually too much there for a normal club player in what is a rare auction but would recommend it for a serious pair looking to reach a high level.
There have also been a few other threads touching on this area in the last few years so a short search might also turn up some useful points. I seem to recall Frances making an interesting post in this area a couple of years ago - perhaps you can find that...
#15
Posted 2015-June-03, 06:34
ahydra, on 2015-May-31, 13:27, said:
My partner and I are currently having an epic discussion about methods over 2NT-3R transfer, and I'd like to request your input - basically, "what do you play":
- does 2NT-3R; 3M (complete transfer) promise a fit?
I play 3M shows 2, 3M+1 shows 3+, others super-accepts.
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I just bid 3M+2 with all 4+ support super-accepts, although I think the trick sources idea is a good one. Cues are a waste of time, IMO, even though they are standard.
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Natural second suit. This is fairly standard and necessary unless you play 3M guarantees a fit.
Over our 3M+1 bid showing a fit, we have 4 steps (e.g. 2NT-3D-3S, we have 3NT/4C/4D/4H available) below game. We use 4D as a re-transfer and all the other bids show shortages in whatever way you can remember. Balanced slam try re-transfers and invites with 5M or cue-bids or keycards.
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Easy to remember and isolates the main factor for deciding on a tight slam with a major suit fit (shortages in the transferrer's hand), while leaving maximum amount of room for natural bidding after opener shows no fit. Allows slam decisions by responder immediately rather than wondering whether opener's accept contains a fit for M or not.
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#16
Posted 2015-June-03, 07:19
lmilne, on 2015-June-03, 06:34, said:
So, what you are saying is that a transfer in response to a 2NT opening is game forcing if partner has 3 card trump support.
I doubt that there are many hands that will make game when partner has 3 card trump support and responder was planning on passing opener's completion of the transfer.
#17
Posted 2015-June-03, 13:01
after 3d (transfer)
3h 2/3/4 card support does not expect to make game opposite Qxxxx and out (Axxx QJx KQJ AKJ)
3s 5 spades 2 hearts (sometimes 1:)) hoping to escape for another day^
3n no long suit asks splinter if responder interested in slam (Kxx Axxx AKQJ Ax)
4c super accept 5 clubs
4d super accept 5 diamonds
4h super accept no decent splinter suits and no long suits (Kxxx AQJx KQxx KQ)
After 3h (transfer)
3s 2/3/4 card support does not expect to make game opposite Qxxxx and out. (see above)
3N (same as above)
4c same as above
4d same as above
4h super accept 5 hearts at least HH
4s same as above
The presence of a 5 card suit in opener's hand can make a huge difference for slam and is much more likely than the presence of another 5+ card suit in responder's hand. Easy to remember and most continuations are easy also.
* This can just as easily be played as 5 spades and super accept but have found more utility using it as a secondary option.
PART B of the question 3d (transfer) 3h 3x (except for 3n) seems better to play as a splinter since the incidence of 2 5 card+ suits in the same hand is pretty small.
#18
Posted 2015-June-03, 15:29
After 2NT-3x-3NT (no support) new suits are natural, this creates a problem when you have a strong hand with 6 card major. But you can always fake your 3 card fragment as 5 card side suit and later on rectify to 5M/6M/7M. Texas also solves this issue when hand is good enough.
After 2NT-3x-completion, I use 3NT as balanced slam try and others as short. Wank seems to play 3♠ as balanced and 3NT as spade short, no big difference but 3NT as balanced looks more intuitive to me.
#19
Posted 2015-June-04, 06:10