[jillybean]

1st round 'we got 50%'
2nd round 'why did we get a zero'?
14th round 'Director! we made 4S but it shows as 60% for EW, can you check to see whats wrong?"

and so on.

At many tables, North or Wast like to hang on to the BM and read out the scores from the previous rounds.
Some North's won't actually pass the BM to Wast to verify the score, but prefer to keep possession and simply present the BM to West.

I'm sure we could fit in another round if the previous scores were not displayed, but I fear turning the feature off would incite a revolt.
I'd love to hear other's experiences, "fixes" ?

[DavidKok]

A week ago I played with a new partner at a weak club. I was shocked by how much value my tablemates placed on the MP result during the play, and the running scores between rounds. Is it some instant gratification thing, like an addiction?

[paulg]

jillybean, on 2025-July-15, 07:36, said:

I'm sure we could fit in another round if the previous scores were not displayed, but I fear turning the feature off would incite a revolt.
I'd love to hear other's experiences, "fixes" ?

The summer bridge at our local club is a less competitive environment than September-May (when every night counts towards multiple competitions) and we encourage the stronger players to help the less experienced.

So it was an ideal time to remove the traveller from the BridgeMate. No-one noticed when we introduced it. No-one noticed in September when the competitions started. We've never put it back. People play faster and the evenings finish on time.

It was a good decision.

[jillybean]

Just Do Done It

thanks

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2025-July-15, 09:45, said:

A week ago I played with a new partner at a weak club. I was shocked by how much value my tablemates placed on the MP result during the play, and the running scores between rounds. Is it some instant gratification thing, like an addiction?

It's a real problem with any electronic scoring system, not specifically linked to BM. Although at least more modern alternatives do not have the petty additional issue of NS making it difficult for EW to see the same information - everyone has it on their phone/laptop at the same time. Our players even have the full board layout, the full traveller including leads and the double dummy PAR analysis too.
As you say it is certainly an instant gratification thing, and easily misused or abused too (few partnerships are sufficiently mature to evaluate this information objectively and philosophically, and even those that are may resent the opponents forcing it upon them and wasting time).

This is a major problem that an RA should not ignore. Mycroft once claimed proudly that he kept this snake in the box, but once it is out no wise TD would dare try to put it back.
My strong suggestion to FIGB was that the traveller, diagram and PAR information should remain available to players during the tournament, but ONLY AT THE END OF THE ROUND (or at least that I should be able to configure things this way). If any board has not yet been played then they should only receive acknowledgement that the current contract, lead and score have been verified and registered. This way they are at least incentivated to get on with the next board and not disturb concentration of opponents and nearly tables.

[barmar]

pescetom, on 2025-July-15, 13:42, said:

It's a real problem with any electronic scoring system, not specifically linked to BM.

It's not specifically linked to electronic scoring. The problem exists with paper travellers, too.

Back in the manual entry days, this is one of the reasons why real tournaments used pickup slips rather than travellers. Another reason was that the final results came out quicker.

[paulg]

barmar, on 2025-July-18, 09:35, said:

Back in the manual entry days, this is one of the reasons why real tournaments used pickup slips rather than travellers. Another reason was that the final results came out quicker.

Pickup slips were never a thing in the UK, perhaps because our tournaments were smaller and perhaps because caddies were rarely used.

What sped scoring up here was the introduction of multi-sheet travellers (a traveller with carbon copies) - so that the travellers could be torn off and collected every eight boards.

[jillybean]

paulg, on 2025-July-18, 10:00, said:

Pickup slips were never a thing in the UK, perhaps because our tournaments were smaller and perhaps because caddies were rarely used.

What sped scoring up here was the introduction of multi-sheet travellers (a traveller with carbon copies) - so that the travellers could be torn off and collected every eight boards.

How long ago were you using carbon copies? With the carbon on players fingers, what were the cards like by the end of the game?

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2025-July-18, 09:35, said:

It's not specifically linked to electronic scoring. The problem exists with paper travellers, too.

Back in the manual entry days, this is one of the reasons why real tournaments used pickup slips rather than travellers. Another reason was that the final results came out quicker.

Yes you're right of course, I just tend to think about the present and future.

Over here pickup slips were (I think) unknown. But paper travellers did have many of the same issues of electronic ones plus some even worse.

[StevenG]

When I started playing bridge in England we always used travellers. The only feedback I later got about how we'd played was the printed results sheet that said something like 47.2%. What could I learn from that? The way to learn was to scrutinise the traveller to get a better idea of what contract we "should" have been in and how many tricks we might have taken. Of course I knew it wasn't necessarily accurate, but it was something. (I certainly didn't hold the game up by doing so.) Quite honestly, without travellers I doubt I'd have continued playing.

Of course we later got printed hand records, DD analysis programs, scoring software and scores posted on the Internet. And by that time I was no longer a novice and could understand a lot of what had gone wrong while at the table. But even so, I still hated playing without travellers on the rare occasions I had to. The session seemed empty and boring without them.

[jillybean]

I assume you no longer use travellers, I hope it's not empty and boring without them.

[StevenG]

jillybean, on 2025-July-19, 07:42, said:

I assume you no longer use travellers, I hope it's not empty and boring without them.

I no longer play at all. But the clubs I could play at always show a traveller on the scoring tablet.

[paulg]

paulg, on 2025-July-18, 10:00, said:

Pickup slips were never a thing in the UK, perhaps because our tournaments were smaller and perhaps because caddies were rarely used.

What sped scoring up here was the introduction of multi-sheet travellers (a traveller with carbon copies) - so that the travellers could be torn off and collected every eight boards.

jillybean, on 2025-July-18, 10:29, said:

How long ago were you using carbon copies? With the carbon on players fingers, what were the cards like by the end of the game?

Originally there was one traveller per board and scores took a long time to come out. Then we had multi-sheet travellers using carbonless copies. Then BridgeMates.

[pescetom]

paulg, on 2025-July-19, 09:42, said:

Originally there was one traveller per board and scores took a long time to come out. Then we had multi-sheet travellers using carbonless copies. Then BridgeMates.

We jumped directly (just three years ago, although it seems like a century) from paper travellers to a phone app. It seemed unthinkable to many (including the club president, who argued that older players were not ready for it) but I insisted and made it work for even the most obtuse/lazy of our players, just as I had done for online play during covid.
Some smaller and less resourceful Italian clubs are still eeking out their last years with paper travellers, most of the larger clubs are BridgeMate based and only slowly (if at all) coming to grips with the phone based alternative.
In the South of Italy where I am currently playing, some clubs are still clinging to paper travellers even though they also allow players to insert the score via the phone app, which to my eyes is crazy (players have the same historic delay and uncertainly about the result, the lazier ones feel justified about not using the phone, the FIGB app developers are disincentivated from imposing a concept of end of round).

[mycroft]

Heh, yeah, I just turned 'em off. It's what we do in tournaments (cue pickup slips), so I Just Did. I also was fed up, even back then as a very (okay, relatively) newbie director, with the traveller dance and dragging those tables into the next round *again*.

But then I only have social skills because I've practised and trained (and had some of the obvious holes pointed out by cow-orkers and fellow directors); I'm still willing to Do The Right Thing even if some people get upset about it, and was much more so back then (frankly, I probably didn't even think about the social issues, it was just So Clearly Right). Go Autism Spectrum!

But this time it *was* right, both socially and technically. Sure some people complained about not having the traveller any more, but *many more* were happy about getting out of the 1900 game at 2230 instead of 2245 or 2300 (or, in the Wednesday Night Shark Tank game, at 2150 instead of 2215(*)).

Of course, now that Live4Clubs gives the travellers (and the hand records) 5-10 minutes after the game ends, those that "needed to see what they should have done" get their fix - at the right time, when they can learn from it, not slow down the game, and not have the (random) advantage of knowing their score going into the last round when they catch the swingy boards.

(*)I took that game over a few years in, when the current director and part-owner broke her leg and couldn't walk the tables for 3 months. She decided to play it the first week she was out of bed. She told me afterwards "Yeah, my game is too fast for me, I think."(**)
(**)Side note, this was before bridgemates. I know this because I wasn't M- (trained as an accountant data entry operator. Wizard with 10-key) and couldn't do 36 13-play travellers in 5 minutes like she could; but I did know how to use pickup slips. So when my occasional partner J- came in and said "so, since you know how, maybe you should try pulling the travellers after 12 and doing the last round on pickups?" I just patted the pile of blue paper and smiled...

[paulg]

For our club games on BBO we do check the barometer button so that everyone can see their current score and what has happened on previous boards.

The main reasons for this decision, which seems contrary to our face-to-face position, is that the rounds are timed so they will not slow down the movement and, if they finish a round early, it provides something that they can do rather than chatting (which is always different online).

However, if I partner one of the less experienced players, then one of my rules is that they do not look at any previous hands while we are playing, even if we finish early: there is plenty of time and opportunity to discuss them later.

I explain that looking at previous hands takes brain power and concentration away from the boards yet to come and you cannot do anything about the past. What other people have done on previous boards is irrelevant until later, so there is no point worrying about it.

Although I know I'm right, I feel like they do not extend their practice to their regular partners