[paulsim]

Hi all,

---

Is there any standard to respond with 4/4?
2♠ or 2♥



a.- If it is 2♥ then responder bids non-forcing 2♠ with four? or what?

b.- If it is 2♠ then, what responder does with 8-9pH with 4 hearts?

Thank you all
Kind Regards,

Pauls_S

[jillybean]

I use 3♣ here to show 44 Majors.

[apollo1201]

Your partner should have a landing spot when they are not worth a GF and when holding only one major, in case you do not bid the one they have.

So either they are 43 and decide to let you play in a 7-cd fit, or they have D fit and correct back to 3D, or they can bid 2NT. Sometimes they have 5 spades and can bid a non forcing 2S over 2H.

That is why with 44 you should bid H first. It leaves more options open and allows more often stay at the 2-level with a min partner.

[jdiana]

FWIW, my notes say:

0-8 points - 1♠ (This allows you to bid hearts more cheaply if, e.g., opener rebids his minor and you decide to compete.)
9-11 points - Cuebid opponent's suit. When partner picks a major, raise to 3M to invite.
12+ points - Cuebid opponent's suit. When partner picks a major, raise to game.

So, like jillybean, on the given hand I would bid 3♣. Then raise to game.

[smerriman]

jdiana, on 2024-October-11, 18:08, said:

FWIW, my notes say:

0-8 points - 1♠ (This allows you to bid hearts more cheaply if, e.g., opener rebids his minor and you decide to compete.)
9-11 points - Cuebid opponent's suit. When partner picks a major, raise to 3M to invite.
12+ points - Cuebid opponent's suit. When partner picks a major, raise to game.

So, like jillybean, on the given hand I would bid 3♣. Then raise to game.

I think you must be misreading the auction. You're the opening bidder, and partner could be weak; 3♣ shows a much stronger hand for me. I just choose the cheaper bid of 2♥.

[jdiana]

smerriman, on 2024-October-11, 18:41, said:

I think you must be misreading the auction. You're the opening bidder, and partner could be weak; 3♣ shows a much stronger hand for me. I just choose the cheaper bid of 2♥.

You're right - my brain went to takeout doubles for some reason. My apologies.

[jillybean]

Partner is going to have 8+ points for a negative double at the 2 level, 3♣ seems right here.

[DavidKok]

The auction 1♦-(2♣) is a horror in standard. More so if your 1♦ may be balanced. Even worse if it contains hands with only 3 diamonds. Worst of all is when you are actually dealt one of those hands.

Now if partner bids a suit usually things turn out OK. New major suits show 5(+) cards and are forcing (though some prefer to play negative free bids here, but I will sidestep that for now), 2♦ and 3♦ and likely also 3♣ are raises. Unfortunately that means partner will put far too many hand types in double to make up for the lack of space. So the one auction you want avoid systemically is opening 1♦ with a balanced hand, hearing a 2♣ overcall, and then partner finding a double.

If you end up in this situation anyway, just embrace that it's going to be a bad day. I'm being quite serious - this is simply one of the more famous system gaps in standard. Several solutions exist, but if you don't play them, that won't do you any good. Here I would rebid 2♥. Some people insist that they should bid or bypass 2♦ to show or deny diamond length, and also play this on 1♦-(P)-2♣. I think this is a poor idea, but at least it answers what your proper rebid is.

At the end of the day you are going to pay up a large percentage of the time when this auction comes up. Expect to miss your 8-card major suit fits, to end in 4-3 diamond fits, to miss 26 HCP games and bid 23 HCP ones. You can choose exactly how you will lose on this auction, but not how often or by how much (at least, not without learning new methods).

[paulsim]

Thanks all,

yep, it's a painfull situation,


DavidKok: "Several solutions exist": could you address some notes?


Thanky,

[helene_t]

paulsim, on 2024-October-14, 01:55, said:

DavidKok: "Several solutions exist": could you address some notes?

Maybe the most popular method is SWITCH:
1♦-(2♣):
2♥=5+ spades
2♠=5+ hearts

This means that the negative double does not contain hands with long spades, so as opener you can now respond 2♥ to the negative double. Responder can then bid 2♠ to show an invitatonal hand with exactly four spades (and presumably some diamond tolerance).

Alternatively, play transfers: 2♦->hearts, 2♥->spades. This has the same effect of making the negative double more well-defined.

You can also play
1♦-(2♣):
2♦=4 hearts (and diamond tolerance)
x: 4+ spades (and possibly also hearts)
This can be combined with SWITCH.

[DavidKok]

Helene mentioned several options (though the variation I've seen on the last one uses 2♦ as 4-5♥ and is NF).

I wanted to add one more, though perhaps not as welcome: stop opening 1♦ with most or all balanced hands. In theory this shifts the problem to the 1♣-(2♣) auction, but in practice opponents are not as prepared for this. Having 1♦ guarantee 5(+) diamonds (or specific 4441's) in an unbalanced hand makes it easier for responder to navigate to a good contract on auctions like this, while also reducing the frequency. 'Diamond tolerance' only requires a 3-card suit now, and can in a pinch be right with a doubleton. More generally I like it when my openings prepare me for the competitive auction, since those are most frequent and most costly to get wrong.

The negative double containing certain weak hands with a 5(+)cM along with all the problems with decently strong hands with one or both 4cM is something that exacerbates the issue, and I'd strongly consider passing those hands instead of doubling nearly regardless of other agreements.