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foobar, on 2024-September-16, 17:33, said:
BTW, are you the same Kurt from BridgeWinners who had posted on the same topic? If so, it will be interesting to see a version of the Charron relay over 1♣ that isn't tied to using 1♠ as DN. Basically, something that works over a 1♦ as 0-7ish, with remaining GF.
The idea is to see if the symmetry is possible without having to resort to the semi-positive and DN responses.
The idea is to see if the symmetry is possible without having to resort to the semi-positive and DN responses.
Yes, and the same Kurt from REC.GAMES.BRIDGE. The reason that I use the Game Forcing (GF), SemiPositive (SP) and Junk (JK) designations, instead of NonForcing (NF) and GF is twofold. First, Meckwell light and the "current" popular versions of 1♣ strong use a trinary division rather than binary - one can argue over where the divisions should land. With a 16+ club, Meckwell light uses 0-7, 8-11, 12+ but they don't use any form of Symmetric Relay. Second, and far more important, is that with Charron every GF hand goes through 1♦ or 1♥ now - leaving every other response to 1♣ available for non-GF hands.
I've never understood the issue with 1♠ being junk - unless the worry is buying the contract at 1N and going 2 off vulnerable. From an interference and competitive auction perspective it is beneficial, as it opens up every response that is not 1suit to be used for GI hands (or highly shapely Junk hands).
However, we've been experimenting with a Polish Club "style" where the 1♣ opener could also have an UNB 10-14 5+♠ hand. This makes the 1♠ response legitimately non-forcing, and puts pressure on overcaller to decide whether to reopen the auction. And as a bonus, it allows us to use the 1♠ opening as pseudo pre-emptive with 8-11HCP and 4-5♠.
So now the main 1♣ bidding sequence looks like this:
1♣ = 15+ ANY or 10-14 UNB 5+♠
1♦ = ♥ Key (or ♣ key)*
1♥ 15+ RELAY
1♠ = SP BAL
1N = 15-17 BAL
2♣ = ART 18+ GF (Relay)
2x = 15-17 UNB
{1N = ♣ 2nd Key --> 2♣ RELAY}
{2♣ = ♦ 2nd Key --> 2♦ RELAY}
<2♦ = All 1suit or 1Key Patterns>
{other Relay bids}
1♠ 10-14 UNB 5+♠
1N = F1
2♣ = ART 15+ GF (Relay)
1♥ = NOT♥ Key (or ♦ key)*
1♠ 15+ RELAY
{1N = ♣ 2nd Key --> 2♣ RELAY}
{2♣ = ♦ 2nd Key --> 2♦ RELAY}
<2♦ = All 1suit or 1Key Patterns>
{other Relay bids}
1N 10-14 UNB 5+♠
2♣ = ART 15+ GF (Relay)
*1suiters and 1key hands that use a minor as their primary key (they go through 2♦) show the minor key by using a surrogate major (♥ for ♣, and ♠ for ♦).
In the past two years, I've made some minor revisions to the 1♣ relay; the main one being 5332 has moved into balanced (4432, 5332, 5422) with 7411 becoming a 1suiter. I've also added relay breaks over any hand that goes through 2♦ (1suiter or any hand that can be defined by 1Key - 4441 for example) which allows honor detail at/below 3N.