[jillybean]

I'm working on my play of hand but these fantastic auctions keep on presenting themselves.

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Go slow you say? 3♥ will elicit a 3NT bid.

Now the grumble. I see decent players learning their systems via the players at their local club and unfortunately, if the club is weak they have picked up many ingrained bad habits and concepts.

Since when is a "negative double" 1C (1H) P (P). X.

I have had no success convincing this player that opening 1C and now bidding 1S doesn't promise or even suggest 5.
And I've come to realize that can only use Justin Lall's approach, and my favorite, 1m (1H) 1S 4+ treatment if I put a club in with my spades.

[DavidKok]

Did 2♥ promise 6? I think partner can still have a 3=1=5=4 or even 3=1=6=3. With that hand and black suit values someone has to bid NT. Thankfully our hearts are good even opposite a void, so we're contributing 8 tricks at least and possibly a couple more. I think a grand slam is close and a small slam is likely. 3♥ seems fine. Partner's 3NT should show a boring minimum (now 3=1=5=4 starts to look more likely - partner would likely have raised us with a doubleton). Over 3NT we can blast 6NT or bid 4♦ and take it from there. I'm not planning on playing in hearts or diamonds though, so I'm not sure going slow over 3NT will accomplish anything. Maybe we can find 7NT, or ask for key cards for diamonds and find partner has only one(?).

On 1♣-(1♥)-P-(P); ? of course 1♠ should not promise 5, so that's frustrating to deal with. There are lots of treatments for the auction 1m-(1♥)-?, I'd pick one and stick with it. I played the somewhat popular "X = 4-5 spades, 1♠ is a transfer to NT" for a while but you really cannot play that without good followup agreements, and on balance we ended up losing more than we gained from that treatment. I think the standard "X = 4 spades (or some unique trouble hands), 1♠ = 5(+)" is fine.

[Stephen Tu]

If you aren't bidding 1h-2d-3h, what hand are you saving 3H for??

Failing to jump to 3H leaves you unable to distinguish hands like this from hands with less solid suits. Hard for partner to cooperate and cue bid having only small singleton heart.

[jillybean]

2♥ does show 6

I did bid 3♥ after 2♦ ! only to be told, in the post hand review that this was the wrong bid and my bid was 2♥

1♥:2♦
3♥:3nt


David, X=4 spades, 1♠=5 is fine but nowhere near as descriptive as X denies 4

[DavidKok]

For what it's worth I would not jump to 3♥ on the second round. For me that jump doesn't show extra values, it shows a more hearts-oriented hand and puts partner in the driver's seat. With this particular hand I am really curious about partner's shape and values - we might belong in diamonds, or partner might have a delayed heart raise - so I'd keep the bidding low.

[TylerE]

DavidKok, on 2023-April-18, 14:44, said:

For what it's worth I would not jump to 3♥ on the second round. For me that jump doesn't show extra values, it shows a more hearts-oriented hand and puts partner in the driver's seat. With this particular hand I am really curious about partner's shape and values - we might belong in diamonds, or partner might have a delayed heart raise - so I'd keep the bidding low.

How do you get more heart oriented than AKQ-7th and a stiff, with no side 4 card suit or source of tricks? This is the definition of a picture bid hand. That bid is 3H.

[kgr]

DavidKok, on 2023-April-18, 13:50, said:

There are lots of treatments for the auction 1m-(1♥)-?, I'd pick one and stick with it. I played the somewhat popular "X = 4-5 spades, 1♠ is a transfer to NT" for a while but you really cannot play that without good followup agreements, and on balance we ended up losing more than we gained from that treatment. I think the standard "X = 4 spades (or some unique trouble hands), 1♠ = 5(+)" is fine.

I play T-Walsh and if opps intervene on 1-level we play similar as T-Walsh (using DBL and RDBL as transfer) and similar follow-up.
1m-(1♥)-?
- DBL: 4+♠
- 1♠= 6+HCP, 3-♠ (This can be with 6HCP, no ♥ stopper. We prefer to do our bids asap)
- 1NT= 6-9HCP, stop ♥

[DavidKok]

TylerE, on 2023-April-18, 20:10, said:

How do you get more heart oriented than AKQ-7th and a stiff, with no side 4 card suit or source of tricks? This is the definition of a picture bid hand. That bid is 3H.

The hearts are so good that this hand is completely fine for notrumps or even diamonds. If you have agreed that 3♥ is 'lots of hearts' that's a great description. For me it shows 'a hand that really wants to play in hearts', which is related but not identical.

kgr, on 2023-April-19, 03:16, said:

I play T-Walsh and if opps intervene on 1-level we play similar as T-Walsh (using DBL and RDBL as transfer) and similar follow-up.
1m-(1♥)-?
- DBL: 4+♠
- 1♠= 6+HCP, 3-♠ (This can be with 6HCP, no ♥ stopper. We prefer to do our bids asap)
- 1NT= 6-9HCP, stop ♥

This works well, our problems were on future rounds in competition, as well as the immediate 2-level responses. It is somewhat common to pair this treatment with 1NT = ♣, 2♣ = ♦, 2♦ = cue, 2♥ = 6(+) spades, weak or strong and 2♠ = 6 spades, exactly inv. This way DBL = 4-5 spades. We didn't play this 2-level scheme, and struggled to have good auctions with 4-5 spades opposite 2-3 in competition on this start, especially when we belonged in 3NT while neither side had a good heart stopper (but together we had one).

[ali quarg]

You are in a GF with opener looking to slam in ♥ or NT.
I'd treat 3♥ as slam invitational with a self-sustaining suit; still plenty of space to establish whether you have controls in all suits and switch to NT if applicable.

[jillybean]

Here's the full hand

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lead 3♣

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2023-April-18, 14:44, said:

For what it's worth I would not jump to 3♥ on the second round. For me that jump doesn't show extra values, it shows a more hearts-oriented hand and puts partner in the driver's seat. With this particular hand I am really curious about partner's shape and values - we might belong in diamonds, or partner might have a delayed heart raise - so I'd keep the bidding low.

It is standard in NA for 3H to show solid hearts and some extra values as well. It’s not about being ‘more hearts oriented’, whatever that means. It’s about describing your hand to partner, whose bidding tasks are made easier if you describe your hand accurately.

Imo, if you wanted to look up what a 3H rebid looked like, this would be one of the examples one might see….the seventh heart is a bonus but AKQJxx with around 15-17 hcp would be normal.

The main point is that you are telling partner that hearts are solid. Bidding 2H then 3H specifically denies a holding such as the one we have and, accordingly, partner should definitely NOT play you for this suit/hand.

Jumps in game forcing auctions, imo, should be reserved for specific hands so as to allow partner to participate n the auction with some idea what one holds.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2023-April-19, 06:49, said:

Here's the full hand

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lead 3♣

This is, imo, a terrible auction. There is no way that north should jump to slam. Bidding 3H described the hand reasonably well…we have an extra heart but that’s all. Partner, expecting six solid hearts and five to seven hcp outside the suit, chose to reject the idea of slam. 3N was the most regressive bid available. I can understand feeling that one has ‘extras’ for 3H, due to the extra heart, but the way to show that is to raise 3N to 4N, again describing one’s hand to partner. 4N says…I have a better hand than you’re expecting for 3H….what do you think?

Edit: on reflection, I think the slam is actually better than 50% by a slim margin.

On the club lead, west wins and returns a heart or a club.

On a heart back, pull,trump, then cross to the diamond ace. As it happens, that works, but the plan was to pitch a diamond on the club king and then take a ruffing finesse through west.this adds a tiny percentage to the chances, and that tiny percentage pays off here.

South has a minimum game force but has a decent diamond suit and controls. It’s tough to say whether south should move over 4N, because I can see all the cards now and thus know that the slam is about 50%, technically a tiny bit worse because if the very small risk of 5-0 trumps.

As for opener forcing to slam, picture KQx x KQxxxx KJx. Sure, it’s unlikely we’re off two aces but unlikely isn’t impossible once partner, knowing of our 3H bid, tried to shut it down in 3N. It’s not that 4N is keycard, but partner knows that aces are slam positive and no aces is slam negative….we didn’t open 2C, after al.

[DavidKok]

mikeh, on 2023-April-19, 09:12, said:

Imo, if you wanted to look up what a 3H rebid looked like, this would be one of the examples one might see….the seventh heart is a bonus but AKQJxx with around 15-17 hcp would be normal.

I would rebid 3NT with that hand, showing solid hearts.

[Stephen Tu]

mikeh, on 2023-April-19, 09:23, said:

On a heart back, pull,trump, then cross to the diamond ace. As it happens, that works, but the plan was to pitch a diamond on the club king and then take a ruffing finesse through west.this adds a tiny percentage to the chances, and that tiny percentage pays off here.

Is ruffing finesse best, or should we try for doubleton K either side (or stiff K) and fall back on spade finesse (or show-up squeeze if applicable)?