[mikl_plkcc]

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Every table made 13 tricks here.

Opener led ♣4, then it was a solid 13 tricks on 2-1 trump break. On another table opener led ♦, then it was also a solid 13 tricks as well on 2-1 trump break. However, if opener led a ♠, does the slam depend on the position of ♣Q and ♦Q? Also, if trump break was 3-0, is this still a solid grand slam?

Also, if control-showing bid is used here, then we can know that we have all first and second round controls and bid 7♥, but how can we initiate the sequence (assuming 5 card majors and strong 1NT)?

I am thinking about
1♥ - 2♣
2♦ - 2♠
3♦ (showing 5+ ♦ and longer or equal ♥) - ??

If 2♠ is GF here, I can bid 3♥, in such case the bidding will go:
4♥ (absolutely minimum opening hand - no slam interest) - 5♣ (slam interest, 1st control in ♣)
5NT (We have already had all controls in the side suits - bid 7♥ if your trump is solid) - 7♥

However, if 2♠ is F1 here, do we have a method to initiate a control-showing sequence?

Also, what will happen if the bidding start with
1♥ - (/) - 2♣ - (3♠)?

Another table had
1♥ - (/) - 2♣ - (3♠)
4♦ - (4♠) - 5♥ - //

and another table had
1♥ - (/) - 2NT! (Jacoby 2NT) - (3♠)
4♣ - (4♠) - 5♦ - (/)
5♥ - //

None of the table who didn't respond 4NT after 1♥ opening could bid slam, after west overcalled 3♠. Is this slam biddable if west and east competed with 3♠ and 4♠?

[mikeh]

Bidding to grand here requires agreements, especially if west butts in with 3S

However, one basic rule which so many non-experts ignore repeatedly is to NEVER bid keycard unless one knows what to do after any conceivable response

Say North show 2 keycards and then the club King.

Does he have Axx xxxxx Ax Kxx? Grand is terrible

Does he have Ax xxxxx Axxx Kx? Grand is very good

Does he have A xxxxxx Ax KQxx. 7N is lay down (important at mps or BAM)

Well, using a game forcing heart raise won’t necessarily answer every question but it will provide some useful information beyond mere keycard responses.

If you use 2N, then bid 2N in response to 1H

West bids 3S.

Here’s where one would like to have agreements. But even without agreements, say North passes. South cues 4C, then North shows some life via 4D, and south can jump to 5H, asking for a spade control….North may be embarrassed by his horrible heart suit but should bid 7H, since south forced to slam opposite a stiff spade, so 7 should be decent.

If one has agreements, I’d expect grand to be reached once North shows a spade void (how that is done depends on agreements, so I’m not going to suggest a sequence)

Grand is pretty good.

On a normal trump lead, I win in hand, ruff a spade, cash one high diamond, ruff a low diamond, ruff a spade, return to hand with a trump, ruff a third spade, with the 10, draw trump and play all my hearts. Then cross in clubs, cash the last top diamond. If the Queen drops third, claim. If not, hope for a minor suit squeeze on east….if west has 7 spades, then we’re going to have a good idea of the shape by this point.

As for your 1H 2C sequence, you’re making life far too complicated, plus it’s unreasonable for North to never support clubs….over your 2S, North surely has to bid clubs….south could be, say, 4=1=2=6

And the notion that North uses 5N to ask south if he has AKQx or better in hearts, after going ou5 of his way not to support hearts earlier, seems fanciful.

[akwoo]

akwoo & akwoo, without interference:

1♥ - 2♠ (natural, inv+ 4+ heart raise)
4♦ - 4♠ (minimum distributional accept with good diamonds, key card ask)
5N - ??? (odd number with spade void, now responder has to guess)

Now 6♣ and 6♦ ask for 3rd round control, so they don't help. That means responder has to guess here. I think grand is around 60% from responder's point of view, so it's worth bidding in a good field at MPs and not otherwise.

akwoo & akwoo, with interference

1♥ - (P) - 2♠ - (3♠)
4♦ - (4♠) - 4N - (P)
6♥ - ???

where all my bids have pretty much the same meaning! (Yes, 6♥ shows an odd number with a spade void here.)

[Cyberyeti]

It's a very good grand but not 100% solid. Trumps 2-1 and diamonds 4-3 (or 5-2/6-1 with the Q in the short hand) and even if the diamonds misbehave you can try to get the ♣J to play.

trumps 3-0 is more awkward but still decent.

[mikl_plkcc]

I think I will really need to discuss about this because it was an ad hoc partnership and we didn't have a forcing raise agreed beforehand.

[mycroft]

Getting to crazy 80% grands based on fit and odd cards is not very high on my list of "ad hoc partnership issues".

But agreeing with everyone on "slow it down a bit" (and hope the opponents don't go nuts).

But note that par is almost certainly 7♠x for 800 or 1100 (even 1400 beats everyone in 6!)

I'd be very happy with +1460 with non-regular partners, myself.

[nige1]

mikl_plkcc'sdeal rotated to make West opener.
++++++++++++++++++++
The partnership should be happy to declare 6♥.
It's difficult to construct plausible auctions to the grand.

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[Cyberyeti]

 nige1, on 2021-August-19, 15:23, said:

mikl_plkcc'sdeal rotated to make West opener.
++++++++++++++++++++
The partnership should be happy to declare 6♥.
It's difficult to construct plausible auctions to the grand.

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If the strong hand opens it's easier, the problem is that the other hand opens

[Gilithin]

Although 4NT is a terrible call (both Jacoby 2NT and 4♦ splinter are much better), strangely enough it should actually have worked in this case. If North now responds 6♥ to show an odd number of key cards and a spade void, it surely has to be worth it for South to bid 7. The very worst you can have is a black suit squeeze and most of the time there are just 13 tricks.

[DavidKok]

Let me give this a try using the 2/1 I play. It starts a bit on the fancy side but thankfully regular 2/1 has a very comparable auction.

1♥-2♣* (GF clubs or GF balanced or GF heart fit or (10)11-12 balanced);
2♦* (any minimum or real diamonds)-2♥ (GF heart fit);
3♦ (shows shape, promises at least 4 diamonds, does not deny spade or club control)-3♥ (extra values, no short suit outside diamonds);
3♠ (control)-3NT (spade control);
4♣ (control, disappointed to have heard 3NT but worth one more bid instead of 4♥)-?
And now to recap, South has heard North open hearts, show long diamonds and controls in both black suits. A realistic minimum for North on the auction so far is something like ♠Axx, ♥xxxxx, ♦KQJx, ♣Q and then 6♥ depends on the club finesse (if the club queen is a small one I don't think this qualifies as a vulnerable opening). If North has short spades they must have the king of clubs instead, making slam better. So pushing to 5♥ is safe. Is it time for keycards? If partner does not have a void then 0 keycards would make 1=5=4=3 the most probable shape, singleton in spades and clubs Kxx or better, and we are always off two quick tricks (so we can safely sign off). If partner shows 1 the slam is in jeopardy if partner has ♠A, ♥xxxxx, ♦KQJT, ♣xxx but hopefully partner would not have opened that hand at this vulnerability. I think I'll brave it.
-4NT;
6♥ (odd number of keycards, void in a suit that cannot be bid safely at the 6-level, so spades)-?
South now knows North has something like ♠-, ♥xxxxx(x), ♦Axxx(x), ♣K(xx) with at least three more points to take this up to an opening hand (6 hearts are possible but 7 is unlikely on the bidding, I guess North could be 6-6 in the reds). If North has the queen of clubs we can take 4 club tricks, 1 diamond trick and 8 tricks in hearts (ruff three spades in North, losing to an 8-2 split but people tend to bid with 8 spades) for 13. If, instead, the club king is single or double and North has the diamond king we are at 2 diamond tricks, 2 club tricks and would need to navigate either 9 heart tricks in the form of a crossruff (which is not crazy, draw one round of trumps, cash the minor suit winners, ruff the third round of clubs while shooting a prayer and then crossruff diamonds and spades) or 8 heart tricks and a squeeze. This looks odds-on to me. However, North could have the death hand ♠-, ♥xxxxx, ♦AQJxx, ♣Kxx, opposite which I'd rather not be in a grand.
It's really unclear what South should bid now. I think it's worth the gamble, but I'm not sure.

If West jumps in with 3♠ my auction would go:

1♥-(P)-2♣* (multiplex, same as before)-(3♠);
P (4♦ is tempting but can always be bid next round, pass shows the minimum)-4♠ (strong heart support);
5♣ (control)-5♦ (control);
5♥ (to play, the diamond control must be a short suit, North's hand just turned worthless) - 6♥ (too many extras, South was exploring a grand slam);
P.

[nige1]

Diagram and auction amended in the light of CyberYeti's correction (thank you).
mikl_plkcc'sdeal rotated to make West opener.
++++++++++++++++++++
This amended auction is effectively 1♥ - 6♥.

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[Gilithin]

 nige1, on 2021-August-19, 21:46, said:

This amended auction is effectively 1♥ - 6♥.

Without interference this should actually be fairly trivial for a half-decent structure. East shows a GF raise; West shows a min with ♠ void; East asks; West shows 1 key card and both minor kings.