[bixby]

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MPs, E/W Vul. Playing with the GIB robots in an individual event, what is your next call? 3S is described as "5+ C; 4+ D; 3 S; 21- HCP; 18-22 total points; forcing."

[HardVector]

4♦, cuebid, with a normal partner. With the bot....who know?

[Phil]

Ive been passed in some four level cue bids lately so 4♦ seems unnecessarily risky. I would just bid 4♠. My ♥Q is wasted so I basically have a minimum for my action.

[neilkaz]

 Phil, on 2018-November-22, 20:59, said:

Ive been passed in some four level cue bids lately so 4♦ seems unnecessarily risky. I would just bid 4♠. My ♥Q is wasted so I basically have a minimum for my action.

Agreed.

[smerriman]

4♠, not because I think 4♦ will be passed, but because GIB's cuebidding system is silly and it promises a much stronger hand than you have.

[PhilG007]

4NT RKCB Whether I bid 6♠ or 7♠ is dependent on how many key cards partner shows
if its 5♣ showing 3 (It must be 3 given the pointage) I'm definitely bidding the grand slam.
Any other 5 level suit response,I'll settle for six.

[gordontd]

 PhilG007, on 2018-November-23, 06:47, said:

4NT RKCB Whether I bid 6♠ or 7♠ is dependent on how many key cards partner shows
if its 5♣ showing 3 (It must be 3 given the pointage) I'm definitely bidding the grand slam.
Any other 5 level suit response,I'll settle for six.

Why would you want to be in a grand, or even a small slam, opposite:

Axx
A
Qxxx
AKJxx

[lamford]

I think you are worth one cue. There are plenty of hands where slam is cold, and plenty where it is poor.

This interested me, and I did a simulation using Bridge Analyser with the North hand as stated. This showed that if I had to make the final call, I would choose 6S:

Tricks in S 9 10 11 12 13
From 1000 9 81 325 477 107

So, slam makes 58.4% of the time. I don't think there is much wrong with 4D, even playing with a robot. If it co-operates with 4H, then I will bid Blackwood. If it signs off in 4S I will give up. But then I only practice against robots and don't really know how they "think". Roll-on a Google Deep Mind bridge.

[nige1]

Bixby asks "MPs, E/W Vul. Playing with the GIB robots in an individual event, what is your next call? "
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I rank
1. 4♦ = CUE. GIB recognizes this as a cue-bid. Hope to Keep 6♣ in the picture.
2. 4N = RKC. Committal: In spite of the explanation, GIB can't be relied on to have 3 ♠s. e,g, ♠ Q x ♥ A ♦ K x x x ♣ A K Q x x x
3. 4♠ = S/O. Pusillanimous.
4. 3N = NAT. Not completely stupid opposite GIB

Paul Lamford's suggestion is brilliant: try to involve the genius, Demis Hassabis. in creating an AphaZero bridge robot tor BBO.
BBO is a massive experimental environment and the project would generate mutually beneficial publicity.

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[gszes]

who know what a bot is doing? I would have bid 2h fsf over 2d and maybe we would have gathered better info. As it is I feel compelled to bid 5s asking bot to bid 6 if it near max with singleton or even if near bottom with a void and pass even if near max if it is lying about short hearts sigh and lastly bid 7 if near max with a void. Who knows what the bot will dream up

[bixby]

Thank you all for these thoughts. Here's the rest of the story:

---

As you can see, I turned the deal upside down to ask the question. The hand shown as yours was really your robot partner's hand. Your hand was really the South hand shown now. The deal was one of the last deals I encountered on the final day of the recent NABC Robot Individual event.

I don't know if my bids were the best possible, but my choices were not uncommon -- they occurred 9 times out of the 30 times the deal was played. Following the sequence shown in the question, the robot came up with . . . 3NT! I was rather disappointed when I saw my partner's hand following East's lead of the H3. Naturally West won the HA and returned a heart (the 7) to East's HK. By good fortune West had the HJ and East had the CK so after a simple club finesse we made all the remaining tricks for +460, but that was still below average as everyone in a spade game made at least +480, and there were a few pairs who reached 3NT on some other auction and made +520 after getting a different lead.

But really, why choose 3NT knowing of the 8-card spade fit and having no guarantee that partner has anything in hearts? I was baffled.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[lamford]

 bixby, on 2018-November-23, 20:38, said:

But really, why choose 3NT knowing of the 8-card spade fit and having no guarantee that partner has anything in hearts? I was baffled.

It was asking you to pass with xxx J KQJx AKQJx when 3NT will make nine or ten tricks, and 4S is in jeopardy. Is that not standard Robot Romex?

[msjennifer]

Sirs.The information given says that opener shows 21HCP.The distribution given is a 3-1-4-5 hand.For all purposes my heart Q is useless.I have also given a preference for a club contract with xxx only.I lack a guard in hearts and so there is no point in seeking a NT contract.In my opinion slam is out of question.Keeping fully in mind that my partner is a ROBOT,I shall refrain from making a cue bid of 4D and bid a straightforward 4S..However.let it suffice to say, with my regular partner I shall certainly bid 4D as the way we play it any cue bid on the way to a game forcing situation and certainly below the game contract promises nothing extra than what has been shown earlier.

[msjennifer]

 bixby, on 2018-November-23, 20:38, said:

Thank you all for these thoughts. Here's the rest of the story:

---

As you can see, I turned the deal upside down to ask the question. The hand shown as yours was really your robot partner's hand. Your hand was really the South hand shown now. The deal was one of the last deals I encountered on the final day of the recent NABC Robot Individual event.

I don't know if my bids were the best possible, but my choices were not uncommon -- they occurred 9 times out of the 30 times the deal was played. Following the sequence shown in the question, the robot came up with . . . 3NT! I was rather disappointed when I saw my partner's hand following East's lead of the H3. Naturally West won the HA and returned a heart (the 7) to East's HK. By good fortune West had the HJ and East had the CK so after a simple club finesse we made all the remaining tricks for +460, but that was still below average as everyone in a spade game made at least +480, and there were a few pairs who reached 3NT on some other auction and made +520 after getting a different lead.

But really, why choose 3NT knowing of the 8-card spade fit and having no guarantee that partner has anything in hearts? I was baffled.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

SIR,pardon me but you did say that your bids show 21 HCP.I see that this hand has only 16 HCP.The ROBOT must have visualised this and wrongly or correctly the way you take it only SUGGESTED 3NT as a possible contract (it should not have).Sir .pardon me, but the 2D bid is not a jump shift but a only a simple reverse and is NOT NECESSARILY a game force as the responder can make a 1S bid even with a paltry 5HCP(since 1C may be even on 2/3 cards.)This is perhaps the way the ROBOT treated it and retreated to 3C.

[NILESH]

As the opening bid is Reverse then the Opening hand may be 18-19 or 18-21 and there may be 5 clubs 4 diamonds 3 spades 1 heart or 2spades 2 hearts as the 3 spades shall be 3 spades here. So to play in 8 card trump fit in 4 spades shall be better. The 3 NT will be dangerous in Heart suit. I do not try in Slam here as there is lack of 33 HCP .

[rhm]

 lamford, on 2018-November-23, 10:29, said:

I think you are worth one cue. There are plenty of hands where slam is cold, and plenty where it is poor.

This interested me, and I did a simulation using Bridge Analyser with the North hand as stated. This showed that if I had to make the final call, I would choose 6S:

Tricks in S 9 10 11 12 13
From 1000 9 81 325 477 107

So, slam makes 58.4% of the time. I don't think there is much wrong with 4D, even playing with a robot. If it co-operates with 4H, then I will bid Blackwood. If it signs off in 4S I will give up. But then I only practice against robots and don't really know how they "think". Roll-on a Google Deep Mind bridge.

I do not know what your assumptions were when you did your simulation.
What do we really know at this stage?

Opener has probably 5 clubs and 4 diamonds and maybe 3 spades.
This begs the question what you bid with 5422, good spades, but nothing in hearts?
Also, but depending on agreements, we have already forced to game with 3 small clubs (not a good holding for slam) and we have just one honor in the minors.
Essentially we have 2 key-cards but nothing else.
If that makes 6♠ cold opener must have either a void in hearts or all the missing honors in the remaining suits.
Even without the minor suit jacks and the queen of diamonds this requires opener to have 18 HCP in fitting cards.
Sorry, but your claim that there are plenty of hands where slam is cold is misleading, unless opener has extras.
There will often be some play for 12 tricks and there are certainly many hands where slam will have no play whatsoever.
For example if we have a heart loser and are missing the queen of spades we have a one in three chance to get home.

I remain unconvinced.
After having forced to game I just bid 4♠, whether playing with a robot or a human expert.
If opener requires just 2 key-cards and nothing else he should simply Blackwood.

Rainer Herrmann

[msjennifer]

 rhm, on 2018-November-25, 16:36, said:

I do not know what your assumptions were when you did your simulation.
What do we really know at this stage?

Opener has probably 5 clubs and 4 diamonds and maybe 3 spades.
This begs the question what you bid with 5422, good spades, but nothing in hearts?
Also, but depending on agreements, we have already forced to game with 3 small clubs (not a good holding for slam) and we have just one honor in the minors.
Essentially we have 2 key-cards but nothing else.
If that makes 6♠ cold opener must have either a void in hearts or all the missing honors in the remaining suits.
Even without the minor suit jacks and the queen of diamonds this requires opener to have 18 HCP in fitting cards.
Sorry, but your claim that there are plenty of hands where slam is cold is misleading, unless opener has extras.
There will often be some play for 12 tricks and there are certainly many hands where slam will have no play whatsoever.
For example if we have a heart loser and are missing the queen of spades we have a one in three chance to get home.

I remain unconvinced.
After having forced to game I just bid 4♠, whether playing with a robot or a human expert.
If opener requires just 2 key-cards and nothing else he should simply Blackwood.
Sir,pardon me if a hand requires just 2 key cards to make a SLAM it would probably be opened 2C.
Rainer Herrmann

[Winstonm]

I see no reason to upgrade my Q10x so my hand in essence is a 5323 with KJ, A, with 10xx in clubs. After 3S, I bid 4S, especially as it appears that opener may reverse with light values when holding 3S in this auction.

[rmnka447]

I'm also in the raise 3 ♠ to 4 ♠ camp. I don't think OP made any wrong bids.

As some others have said, ♥ Q is of questionable value opposite a likely stiff or void. So you're likely looking at only a working 8 points opposite the reverse. Slam seems to be a long way off unless partner has a super-maximum reverse.

I abhor how the robot bid the hand. Part of the result is the bots own doing.

I think the proper rebid is 2 ♠ rather than 3 ♣. It establishes that responder has 5 ♠ and while not promising a lot isn't inherently negative either. With a really bad hand, such as ♠ Jxxxx ♥ xxx ♦ Ax ♣ xxx, responder simply starts the potential sign off sequence whatever it is. 2 ♠ takes up little bidding space and allows opener more potential rebids. In reverse auctions, opener is telling. It's a good bidding principle for the weaker hand to try to keep out of the way of the stronger hand telling their story. Over 2 ♠, opener has both 2 NT and 3 ♣ available as additional rebids. 2 NT would seem to indicate 2=2=4=5 or possibly 1=3=4=5 with a ♥ stopper. 3 ♣ is presumably 4=6 in the minors, but could also be made with 4=5 to allow room to explore for 3 NT. Also, a 3 ♠ rebid by opener shows 3=1=4=5, strong 4=1=4=4, or strong 4=1=3=5 hands. Splinters are available for more disjointed hands 4 trump hands such as ♠ AQxx ♥ x ♦ Q10xx ♣ AKxxx.

But the bot chose to rebid 3 ♣ (which should be positive) and opener's rebids are limited. Now, how do you invite 3 NT? With a ♥ stopper, obviously, you'd just bid it. Without a stopper or with only a partial stopper, the other rebids available are only 3 ♥ or 3 ♠. But then what does each of those rebids mean? If both could be steps toward 3 NT or 3 ♥ could be natural, then it may not be clear that 3 ♠ necessarily shows any, let alone 3.

IMO, 3 ♠ ought to show 3 (or at least ♠ Hx). I think 4 ♠ is right by responder.

[aquahombre]

The auction went off rails with the 3c bid. 2D is a reverse showing 4+ diamonds and longer clubs than diamonds with 17+ points. It also guarantees a third bid by opener so almost game force. Without any partnership agreements, the rebid by responder should be 2 spades showing 5 (knowing that this cannot be passed out)and awaiting openers further clarification (do they have 3 spades?) so to find right game. Slam is probably not in works as if pard has 3 spades then only stiff heart so queen is worthless and if not 3 spades then spade honors are degraded and only working for 3nt.