The defender took a couple of seconds... What can the Director rule?
#1
Posted 2016-September-29, 12:25
JTxxx
AK9x
He starts with the Jack, small, Ace and the defender seems to be deciding what to play and then produces a small spade. Declarer decides to play for the drop (3-1 could be more likely on the bidding). The defender now discards.
- What would a Director do in this scenario when called by declarer?
- What would be an extenuating circumstance? (For example, the defender is not a good player, the defender is a beginner, the defender thought he was void in spades and was trying to decide what to discard when s/he found the spade)
- Should a defender who thought s/he was void and then found a card say something like 'Sorry, nothing to think about' or maybe 'Is it my turn? Sorry'
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
My YouTube Channel
#2
Posted 2016-September-29, 12:34
#3
Posted 2016-September-29, 13:28
Cyberyeti, on 2016-September-29, 12:34, said:
Exactly. If the defender doesn't have anything to think, why would s/he think? You don't think unless you have a choice of plays, isn't that an assumption declarer can take (at his own risk, I suppose, but notheless it is there).
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
My YouTube Channel
#4
Posted 2016-September-29, 13:55
Cyberyeti, on 2016-September-29, 12:34, said:
This is not true, eg defender might be trying to decide what suit preference signal to give. I would definitely adjust.
#5
Posted 2016-September-29, 14:37
Vampyr, on 2016-September-29, 13:55, said:
A defender might pause momentarily, to recall partnership trump agreements (if any). Many defenders peter with 3 trumps. Some play Vinje shape signals. A few use Smith peters, even at suit contracts.
For a defender with a singleton, however, options should be limited.
Some players (not all beginners) believe that hesitating with singleton is a cunning and legitimate bluff. Here damage is obvious. If you are not damaged, however, you should probably still call the director in the hope that he'll educate the hesitater
#6
Posted 2016-September-29, 14:38
Vampyr, on 2016-September-29, 13:55, said:
The defender is thinking about whether to play Q from Qx to show a higher-ranking suit??
"Robin Barker is a mathematician. ... All highly skilled in their respective fields and clearly accomplished bridge players."
#7
Posted 2016-September-29, 14:59
RMB1, on 2016-September-29, 14:38, said:
It depends on how the trump suit was played. Perhaps for lack of entries the other top trump was played from hand.
#8
Posted 2016-September-29, 16:18
And I agree, the person who has the singleton should be educated.
#9
Posted 2016-September-29, 16:52
RMB1, on 2016-September-29, 14:38, said:
As long as LHO has a choice in the suit, there's no reason for declarer, missing Qxxx, to risk re-entering dummy, to finesse against RHO.
The drop/finesse decision is close; but
LHO's hesitation with a singleton deprives declarer of the opportunity to make the winning choice.
Once again, It's instructive to players who might regard this as a simple application of the rules, that top directors take an unexpected view that seems to condone and encourage putative infractions.
#10
Posted 2016-September-29, 16:53
I first saw this ruling with Kx/AJxxxxx with the singleton played behind the AJ slowly, and the ruling was that he couldn't have anything to think about with Qx or x.
#11
Posted 2016-September-29, 17:31
Cyberyeti, on 2016-September-29, 16:53, said:
- Declarer leads a small card from dummy's AJxxxxx and
- As declarer's RHO, you hold Qx and
- You haven't peeked or otherwise worked out declarer's actual holding
Then you have something to think about.
e.g. If declarer has singleton ten, then you must rise with the queen or lose your trick
e.g. If declarer has doubleton ten, you may need to rise with the queen in order to lead through declarer.
With a singleton, however, you have nothing to think about -- and that is the point of this thread
#12
Posted 2016-September-29, 18:09
nige1, on 2016-September-29, 17:31, said:
- Declarer leads a small card from dummy's AJxxxxx and
- As declarer's RHO, you hold Qx and
- You haven't peeked or otherwise worked out declarer's actual holding
e.g. if declarer has singleton ten, then you must rise with the queen or lose your trick
Even if declarer has doubleton ten, you may need to rise with the queen in order to lead through declarer.
With a singleton, however, I concede you have nothing to think about -- and that is the point of this thread
Declarer had opened 1N so was known to hold 2, also he led the K not to it. The contract was 6N so leading through was not likely to be important
#14
Posted 2016-September-29, 19:51
Cyberyeti, on 2016-September-29, 18:09, said:
Ideally a player should plan the play so that he can maintain constant tempo; but when he has a choice of plays, even if the correct answer is obvious, he might be forgiven for sometimes taking an extra second or two to assess the context and decide on his best action.
Except, perhaps, at trick one, however, he shouldn't think about the play of a singleton.
Cyberyeti's example is different from the OP. But even in that case, if you appear to have a choice of play when declarer cashes the king, then declarer will play you for Qxx, Qx or xx. The inferential count might also effect his play in other suits. Declarer certainly won't waste time, considering a finesse in this suit.
Of course, if directors judge that it's permissible to hesitate with a singleton, in such situations, then all bets are off.
This post has been edited by nige1: 2016-September-30, 06:16
#15
Posted 2016-September-30, 02:36
nige1, on 2016-September-29, 19:51, said:
Except at trick one, however, he shouldn't think about the play of a singleton.
Conceivably, CyberYeti's example could be the exception to this general rule but in that case it's of doubtful relevance to the OP problem
It's the exact same situation as the original problem if we could see all 4 hands and there were plenty of entries to dummy, one of which is risk free, you play J to the K, cross to dummy, lead the 10 and see a small card ruling out xx on the left, there is no cost in doing this.
#16
Posted 2016-September-30, 03:42
Cyberyeti, on 2016-September-30, 02:36, said:
And if LHO has QXX you have no winning action anyway!
Get the facts. No matter what people say, get the facts from both sides BEFORE you make a ruling or leave the table.
Remember - just because a TD is called for one possible infraction, it does not mean that there are no others.
In a judgement case - always refer to other TDs and discuss the situation until they agree your decision is correct.
The hardest rulings are inevitably as a result of failure of being called at the correct time. ALWAYS penalize both sides if this happens.
#17
Posted 2016-September-30, 04:16
Vampyr, on 2016-September-29, 14:59, said:
This would seem to be the most likely cause of damage. If dummy only has one entry and declarer has two finesse options, then the hesitation may have steered them away from the winning line. I don't see a case for adjusting based solely on the trump suit, but the entire hand may be a different matter.
#18
Posted 2016-September-30, 04:26
#19
Posted 2016-September-30, 04:37
sfi, on 2016-September-30, 04:16, said:
But I still sympathise with Hanoi5.
I don't understand why but I accept that I'm wrong again about how directors interpret the rules.
I'm grateful, however, to BBO, blackshoe, gordontd, trinidad, pran, and others for providing ordinary players with expert legal advice on these common situations.
Thank you all.
#20
Posted 2016-September-30, 07:15
RMB1, on 2016-September-29, 14:38, said:
No, the defender is thinking about whether to play the queen to win the trick, but then notices that declarer has played the ace, so plays low. After a couple of seconds just to "make assurance double sure" as the bard said. "Thou shalt not live", would be my ruling as TD if I thought the defender had tried this with a singleton.
Automatic adjustment whenever someone hesitates with a singleton (in this situation), and gains, as the White Bible tells us.
It depends on context but...
When declarer cashes an Ace,
LHO shouldn't automatically play low with doubleton queen.
Defenders have triumphed in high level play on deals like this.
6N would be better but South reaches 6♠.
You lead ♣Q won by declarer's ♣A.
When declarer next cashes ♠A,
you follow with the ♠Q!
... preferably, in tempo
Believing this might be a singleton,
declarer decides to lead the next ♠ from dummy.
He attempts to cross to dummy's ♥A
but you ruff and lead a ♣ for partner to ruff