[eagles123]

both vul imps pard deals and bids 4d pass to you

AKQxxx
QJx
KTx
T

[mgoetze]

Given opps are U25 they will probably misdefend so 5♦?

[akwoo]

Depending on what partner's preempts at this vulnerability usually look like, I either bid 4♠ or 5♦. I'm not passing vulnerable at IMPs.

[rmnka447]

At IMPs, there's no question you have to bid 5 ♦ unless partner is a notoriously aggressive preemptor. But even if that's so, I'm still bidding game when we presumably have an 11 card fit. It seems like 4 ♥ or 5 ♣ making might also be possible for the opponents. So you don't know if bidding 5 ♦ is to make or is a sacrifice.

[apollo1201]

I guess 4D is a hand that goes past 3NT so looooong and weak suit with some side goodies?

Like A or Q 8th with HK and/or CK/Q or even CA if the D are headed by the Q.

The opps making sth does not worry me too much as partner given his D and putative goodies in one or two rounded suits rates to have very short S so I might even cash 3 rounds. Or paetner'sC honors will work on defenss. But we cant rule that out completely.

Given that not unlikely hands like DA+HK or DQ+CA+singleton H make 5D cold, red at IMPs I go for it. I fear losing 4 tricks more often in 4S due to the expected trump length of an opponent.

A sim could help?

[PhilKing]

5♦.

More than one way to win, and the wins are bigger than the losses from passing.

[mikeh]

The problem I have with 4♠ is that partner is going to be short somewhere, and our shape suggests that he is most likely short in spades.

If he has a stiff or a void, then we probably don't want to be in 4♠. If he passes, we are (probably) losing one or more spade tricks, as well as our round suit issues. Even if he pulls, we have telegraphed the defence...we have forced them to lead a round suit.

So 4♠ works only if he passes only with xx or better, and that is not great odds on this hand. I think I'd want a 7th spade to do this, since I don't think that 4♠ is a COG offer: I think it is 'to play'.

Meanwhile, we clearly can't pass red at imps. He doesn't have to hold 2 hearts, he can hold the heart K, he might (but almost certainly won't) hold both minor Aces, and they may lead a spade. So 5♦ seems mandatory. After all, who the heck can have a double, even if we can't make?

[akwoo]

Opposite ♠x ♥xx ♦AQxxxxxx ♣xx, 4♠ has a chance, but 5♦ does not.

[apollo1201]

Except that this hand might not be opened 4D by all players...

[iandayre]

apollo1201, on 2015-August-20, 01:11, said:

Except that this hand might not be opened 4D by all players...

I don't think you could find any hand that would be opened 4D by all players. With 3 round suit losers I am a 4S bidder here.

[gszes]

This is IMPS and we really need to take our best shot at GAME. 5D while playing an obviously vastly monstrously stronger trump suit just looks like too small a probability to have any play. 4S is vastly inferior overall but may easily have a much higher chance at making GAME than 5d. Another huge advantage to 4s (not to be overlooked) is that if someone X 4s we can always run/flee/scurry to the "safety" of 5d (which will probably also get x but go down far less).

I would hazard a guess that 5d is probably slated to fail over 80% of the time so bidding one more for the road since we will not get x'd would appear to be a long term losing strategy. 4S along with being far less likely to get x (4 lvl vs 5 lvl) might easily make 50+ % of the time making it a very viable game strategy vul at imps.

5D does indeed have more preemptive attributes than 4s but the overall reward position for 4s is just plain vastly superior to 5d and should not be ignored. To be completely honest i
actually prefer pass vs 5d (ouch) 4s= 7 pass = 5 5d = 3 (nothing is perfect)

[StevenG]

Why is 5♦ so unlikely to make? We are highly likely to have 11 tricks on top. In which case opps need both to have three off the top and to find them. Surely, at vul, partner is likely to have something useful to go with his A♦.

[aguahombre]

In the title, are we given as a condition that partner is a CHO? My answer might be different depending on the answer to this.

BTW: I think in this case I am allowed to assume partner forgot our NAMYATS agreement without being accused of fielding.

[Jinksy]

Quote

Why is 5♦ so unlikely to make? We are highly likely to have 11 tricks on top. In which case opps need both to have three off the top and to find them. Surely, at vul, partner is likely to have something useful to go with his A♦.

At vul partner's hand should be purer, not drowning in random honours. ♠x ♥Kxx ♦AQxxxxxx ♣x is a worse vul 4♦ bid than ♠x ♥xxx ♦AQxxxxxx ♣x - I would prefer to open the former 1♦ than at the four level.

[apollo1201]

Eagles, you have to tell us partner's hand and subsequent bidding now!

[mgoetze]

aguahombre, on 2015-August-21, 08:30, said:

In the title, are we given as a condition that partner is a CHO?

In reality, partner is a LYL.

[WesleyC]

5D looks obvious to me.

[BillPatch]

I think it is a toss-up between 4♠ and 5♦. With an aggressive preempter a spade void is less common, so the spade game is preferable. A more conservative preempter is more likely to have he strength to make five diamonds, and also is more likely to have the spade void. With North of the Master Solvers Club opposite, flip a coin.

[lycier]

eagles123, on 2015-August-18, 16:21, said:

both vul imps pard deals and bids 4d pass to you

AKQxxx
QJx
KTx
T

There are 2.5 tricks in this hand,how many tricks are there in pd's 4♦ opening hand? I afraid that partner opening 4♦ never promise even one trick.

My choice is pass,nothing to say.

[BillPatch]

lycier, on 2015-August-24, 06:07, said:

There are 2.5 tricks in this hand,how many tricks are there in pd's 4♦ opening hand? I afraid that partner opening 4♦ never promise even one trick.

My choice is pass,nothing to say.

Perhaps in China you bid 4♦ with a Queen high suit and expect to be doubled and since you have no quick tricks, you expect to lose 13 tricks and all the IMPs.
In the West we fear losing telephone numbers and thus tend to bid 4♦ only with such a long suit with some top honors so that 4♦ doubled vulnerable will probably not be worse than the other side's potential game. We would expect partner to have 8+ diamonds to the AQ since we have the K.

Also, the AKQxxx is likely to take more than its two quick tricks if our side is declaring in diamonds or spades.

One normally uses Quick tricks only for an estimate of defensive tricks possible in the non-trump suits, or to determine whether to open a borderline hand with one of a suit or a weak NT.