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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#13121 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2019-July-10, 05:16

From Why Are Liberals So Mad at Nancy Pelosi? by Jonathan Bernstein at Bloomberg:

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The best thing you can read today is from Kevin Drum at Mother Jones, who points out that liberals are mad at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi for one big reason: because she’s doing her job. In the latest example, Pelosi is feuding with Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez over emergency funding for the border crisis. Pelosi criticized AOC and her “squad” for failing to support the House Democrats’ spending measure and dismissed the faction as irrelevant. It all got a lot of attention.

But as Drum puts it:

Quote

I don’t really take Pelosi’s comments very seriously. Why is she dissing AOC? Because that’s her role as leader of the party, that’s why. Among other things, she needs to protect all the people who did vote for her bill even if they had qualms about it. She’s taking the heat so they don’t have to.

But in another sense, it’s also because she knows what she’s doing.

Pelosi’s job is to work for, and protect, all the members of the House Democratic caucus. And the electoral incentives of relatively moderate members in tough districts will always weigh heavily in that calculation – especially when the more liberal members need those moderates to get their own priorities passed.

There’s a big contrast here between Pelosi and her predecessor, Paul Ryan. Ryan excelled at one thing: ducking blame. This made him entirely ill-suited for the role. Speakers sign up for scapegoat duty. The good ones – Pelosi, John Boehner, Tip O’Neill – have very few star moments, and lots of episodes where they take the brunt of abuse from their own party.

Why is that? One reason is because there are always partisans who don’t really understand vote counts – and plenty of others who are willing to hint to the rank-and-file that the real reason party leaders aren’t acting is because they’re afraid or weak or don’t really believe in the cause. Usually, the real reason for inaction is that the votes just aren’t there. Sometimes the leadership can win over dissenters, but usually it’s difficult. At no point can the speaker just snap her fingers and order the caucus to support the party line. For better or worse, U.S. legislative parties don’t work that way.

None of this means that the House Democratic leadership shouldn’t draw criticism. On oversight, for example, it’s perfectly fair to question how they’ve gone about probing President Donald Trump’s various misdeeds. I’ve certainly done so, and will continue to. That’s sort of the point, in fact; good leaders make themselves targets so that other, more vulnerable members can quietly go about representing their districts.

That said, there’s no magic available. Pelosi and the Democrats, whatever their tactics, have a majority in only one chamber. They face a Republican Party apparently willing to tolerate significant lawlessness from the current administration; a president and his people exploiting that tolerance; and courts that have far too often failed to rein them in. Congress as a whole has enormous capacity to constrain the executive branch. One chamber, though? Much, much less. That basic dynamic shapes every choice House Democrats make. Should we cut Pelosi some slack? Nope. Should criticism of her take into account the context she’s working within? Absolutely.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#13122 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2019-July-10, 05:55

 y66, on 2019-July-10, 04:06, said:

Krugman is saying that the "structural unemployment" argument for the slow recovery that was fashionable among deficit hawks in 2012 was bogus and that the real problem (as he noted in 2009) was insufficient aggregate demand for which he prescribed massive fiscal stimulus.


He could have used the column space more productively. If the 80% figure is a refutation of what was once predicted then he could find people who said something akin to "We will never again, at least not in the remotely foreseeable future, see anything near an 80% rate". Maybe some did say this, I don't keep records, but my impression has been that the argument has been ore along the lines of "Maybe people will be getting jobs, but they will be working for $10 or $15 per hour rather than $30 or $35 per hour". It would be nice if that were also wrong but the 80% figure, by itself, doesn't show that.

I wasn't joking about the 80% figure being about the only thing that interested me. I have often thought, when reading unemployment figures based on how many are seeking work, that I would like to know how many actually are working. I searched a bit and found some graphs, probably the ones he was referring to. For example:

https://data.oecd.or...indicator-chart

Five countries have rates above 90%, the U.S. is well down the list with its 80%. What should we make of this? I don't think the answer is obvious. There is culture, there is choice, there is necessity, it's hard to see what the mix is. Growing up, I knew a divorced mother that worked, both of necessity, I knew f another divorced mother that presumably worked, the mother of one of my friends had a college education, she worked part time by choice, all other women in this age group that I knew did not work. [Oops. Correction: Of course I had teachers. I was thinking of women I knew in the neighborhood.] Of course that has changed. But what, exactly, is the new reality? I grew up in a small house and my parents drove a Chevrolet. The house was paid for and the Chevrolet was paid for, no money was owed. My mother could have worked, and did work when she was young, but now did not work. To what extent does this sort of choice account for the 100-80=20% that are not working? What are the other factors?

Anyway, I found the 80% figure interesting andit inspired me to track down some other graphs, but the rest of his column did not do much for me. "Well, declared the Very Serious People (a term I used a lot at the time)". Yep, he does speak that way a lot. It's a waste of space, that's my first objection to it.
Ken
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#13123 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-July-10, 13:29

 cherdano, on 2019-July-10, 03:58, said:

What's the point of posting a version of this rant every day?


Put me on ignore if you don't care to read what I write. :rolleyes:

In case you really want to know, you can go back several dozen pages and read the posts.
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#13124 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2019-July-10, 17:47

re: stuff related to unemployment for which the answers are not obvious -- from Mike Konzal via Matt Yglesias:

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It's worth watching from earlier: @AOC listing off the Fed's estimates of the long-run unemployment rate over the past five years, noting that unemployment is below all of them without any rise in inflation, and Powell agreeing that they got it wrong.

More of this from the Dems.

If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#13125 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2019-July-10, 18:01

 kenberg, on 2019-July-09, 19:47, said:

Krugman is saying "the prime-age employment ratio was just shy of 80 percent. " The rest of the column has no significant content whatsoever, it's just his usual "I'm brilliant, everyone else is stupid" stuff. Given that unemployment has declined significantly, I do not regard it as a huge surprise that employment has increased significantly, but I did appreciate the references to some data that refers to the percentage of people in various age groups that are employed. Unemployment figures, I think, generally refer to percentages based on people seeking employment. The figures he looks at are percentages for employment, regardless of whether an unemployed person is seeking employment or has any intention of seeking employment. Both approaches are worthwhile, but different. 80% is a pretty large number, surely it was much smaller in, say, 1950 when many women did not work or expect to work. As with most data, I think it needs some examination before making too big a deal over it.


So it was interesting and useful, I had my usual reaction to his style.


Thank you Ken for a reasoned response to what I thought was a reasonable question. I always appreciate your thoughts.
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#13126 User is offline   Chas_P 

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Posted 2019-July-10, 18:04

 johnu, on 2019-July-10, 03:16, said:

No integrity, no dignity, no honor, cannot control himself from continuing to post to this thread and repeatedly demonstrating that he has the same lack of self control of his hero Dennison.

As a sidenote, in the world of pro wrestling, when a wrestler has been suspended, fired, quit, banished in a kayfabe storeyline, that wrestler will sometimes make an immediate return to action wearing a mask. Since he (she) has the same build, the same voice, the same skillset, it's not too hard to figure out that the new masked wrestler is the same guy that was previously banned from the ring. Now, almost everybody know this is the same guy, the crowd, the hot dog vendors, sometimes the opponent. The only people who don't "know" this are on the wrestling company payroll, the ring announcer, the referee, the TV commentators, the general manager and/or president of the company. It all comes down to plausible deniability.

Instead of wearing a mask, all Chas_NoDignity_NoSelfRespect has to do is change to a new screen name. I have been including many possible names in my posts. Nobody will know for sure that the new poster is not Chas_P. I will have my suspicions but I won't know with 100% certainty that this is Chas_P continuing to be a weasel and a man without honor. Nobody will know for sure except for Chas_P.


Thank you for your input Johnboy. You really are a mental heavyweight. I stand in awe of your magnificence.
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#13127 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 00:11

 Chas_Weasel, on 2019-July-10, 18:04, said:



Lacks the self awareness to be aware that he destroyed any dignity and honor he may have had
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#13128 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 02:27

 johnu, on 2019-July-10, 13:29, said:

Put me on ignore if you don't care to read what I write. :rolleyes:

In case you really want to know, you can go back several dozen pages and read the posts.

The essential gist of your argument seems to be that as Chas once posted that he was leaving, that should be binding and coming back in some way shows shame and a lack of integrity. Aside from the tenuous link in the basic argument, one has to wonder about the many other posters that have publicly left the forums and returned. Probably the strongest player still posting here has left BBF on multiple occasions. Do you feel that Mike shows a lack of integrity by posting here again? I would hope not.

So what singles Chas out in this regard besides his politics? I agree absolutely that he sometimes deliberately trolls. Not as badly as some other conservatives that have taken up residence here but enough to open himself up to being essentially pathetic. But a lack of integrity for not following through on an intention to stop posting? Come on man. Your rant after all this time says far more about you than about him.
(-: Zel :-)
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#13129 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 04:51

 Zelandakh, on 2019-July-11, 02:27, said:

The essential gist of your argument seems to be that as Chas once posted that he was leaving, that should be binding and coming back in some way shows shame and a lack of integrity. Aside from the tenuous link in the basic argument, one has to wonder about the many other posters that have publicly left the forums and returned. Probably the strongest player still posting here has left BBF on multiple occasions. Do you feel that Mike shows a lack of integrity by posting here again? I would hope not.


You are hopelessly wrong about your understanding of the situation. Chas_Troll has acknowledged that trolling (as you acknowledge in your post) is one of his goals and was posting ridiculous and easily fact checked lies and was getting his hat handed to him by other posters. He had several moments of clarity and realized how embarrassing it was to continue to spout nonsense and lose whatever respect he had left. So, in a sign of maturity :rolleyes: he dramatically announced he was giving up posting (his talking points from right fringe media) and was going to leave this thread (at least a couple of times that I saw). I'm just trying to help him keep an iota of dignity by reminding him of his pledge to stop posting. B-)

I don't keep track of mikeh's participation. I guess he stops posting at times because of lack of time, or maybe some temporary disinterest with bridge, whatever. If his circumstances change, why would I care why he changed his mind?

 Zelandakh, on 2019-July-11, 02:27, said:

So what singles Chas out in this regard besides his politics? I agree absolutely that he sometimes deliberately trolls. Not as badly as some other conservatives that have taken up residence here but enough to open himself up to being essentially pathetic. But a lack of integrity for not following through on an intention to stop posting? Come on man. Your rant after all this time says far more about you than about him.


If you think I'm ranting, feel free to put me on ignore.

I'm just trying to help Chas be the best man he can be by getting him to show some integrity and honor his word. Nothing more, nothing less. B-)
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#13130 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 06:26

Republican Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert was indicted on federal charges of structuring bank withdrawals after prosecutors alleged Hastert had molested at least four boys as young as 14 and attempted to compensate his victims and subsequently conceal the transactions. Hastert eventually admitted that he sexually abused the boys whom he had coached decades earlier, and was sentenced to fifteen months in prison.

Republican Tim Nolan, chairman of Donald Trump’s presidential campaign in Kentucky, pled guilty to child sex trafficking and on February 11, 2018 he was sentenced to serve 20 years in prison.

Republican state Senator Ralph Shortey was indicted on four counts of human trafficking and child pornography. In November 2017, he pleaded guilty to one count of child sex trafficking in exchange for the dropping of the other charges.

Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

Republican anti-abortion activist Nicholas Morency pleaded guilty to possessing child pornography on his computer and offering a bounty to anybody who murders an abortion doctor.

Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

Republican Senator Strom Thurmond, a notable racist, had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

Republican Congressman Donald “Buz” Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. “Republican Marty”), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

Republican anti-gay activist Earl “Butch” Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

Republican politician Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was charged with sexual misconduct involving a 15-year old girl.

Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.

Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

Republican Councilman and former Marine Jack W. Gardner was convicted of molesting a 13-year old girl.

Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

Republican strategist and Citadel Military College graduate Robin Vanderwall was convicted in Virginia on five counts of soliciting sex from boys and girls over the internet.

Republican city councilman Mark Harris, who is described as a “good military man” and “church goer,” was convicted of repeatedly having sex with an 11-year-old girl and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

Republican businessman Jon Grunseth withdrew his candidacy for Minnesota governor after allegations surfaced that he went swimming in the nude with four underage girls, including his daughter.

Republican director of the “Young Republican Federation” Nicholas Elizondo molested his 6-year old daughter and was sentenced to six years in prison.

Republican benefactor of conservative Christian groups, Richard A. Dasen Sr., was charged with rape for allegedly paying a 15-year old girl for sex. Dasen, 62, who is married with grown children and several grandchildren, has allegedly told police that over the past decade he paid more than $1 million to have sex with a large number of young women.
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#13131 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 07:01

I am leery about trying to make sweeping arguments that party X or party Y has a pervasive history of sexually abusing children.

It's far too easy to cherry pick examples.

However, I would like to see much more active prosecution for these types of offensives and I would like to see some of the individuals involved end up in gen pop.
Alderaan delenda est
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#13132 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 07:20

 johnu, on 2019-July-11, 04:51, said:

I'm just trying to help Chas be the best man he can be by getting him to show some integrity and honor his word. Nothing more, nothing less. B-)


Ah yes, helping the misguided to find the way. Sister Sarah from Guys and Dolls comes to mind. We sinners must seek the path to salvation. Maybe tomorrow, I have a full schedule for today.

I drift off from the WC from time to time. It is in some ways interesting, in other ways frustrating, I sometimes think that going for a long walk would be much better for me and probably more fun. Perhaps we should just accept that people will bounce back and forth on this.

And yes, I do realize I can ignore you if I wish. I often ignore posts, and newspaper articles, and a number of other things, but I don't think that I have clicked ignore for anyone.



Ken
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#13133 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 07:41

 hrothgar, on 2019-July-11, 07:01, said:

I am leery about trying to make sweeping arguments that party X or party Y has a pervasive history of sexually abusing children.

It's far too easy to cherry pick examples.

However, I would like to see much more active prosecution for these types of offensives and I would like to see some of the individuals involved end up in gen pop.


I agree.


Democratic donor and billionaire, Jeffrey Epstein, ran an underage child sex brothel and was convicted of soliciting underage girls for prostitution.
Democratic New York Congressman, Anthony Weiner, plead guilty to transferring obscene material to a minor as part of a plea agreement for sexted and sending Twitter DMs to underage girls as young as 15.
Democratic donor, activist, and Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein is being criminally prosecuted and civilly sued for years of sexual abuse (that was well known “secret” in Hollywood) including underage sexual activities with aspiring female actresses.
Democratic activist and #metoo proponent, Asia Argento, settled a lawsuit for sexual harassment stemming from sexual activities with an underage actor.
Democratic Mayor of Racine, Wisconsin, Gary Becker, was convicted of attempted child seduction, child pornography, and other child sex crimes.
Democratic Seattle Mayor Ed Murray resigned after multiple accusations of child sexual abuse were levied against him including by family members.
Democratic activist and aid to NYC Mayor De Blasio, Jacob Schwartz was arrested on possession of 3,000+ child pornographic images.
Democratic activist and actor, Russell Simmons, was sued based on an allegation of sexual assault where he coerced an underage model for sex.
Democratic Governor of Oregon, Neil Goldschmidt, after being caught by a newspaper, publicly admitted to having a past sexual relationship with a 13-year-old girl after the statute of limitations on the rape charges had expired.
Democratic Illinois Congressman, Mel Reynolds resigned from Congress after he was convicted of statutory rape of a 16-year-old campaign volunteer.
Democratic New York Congressman, Fred Richmond, was arrested in Washington D.C. for soliciting sex from a 16-year-old boy.
Democratic activist, donor, and director, Roman Polanski, fled the country after pleading guilty to statutory rape of a 13-year-old girl. Democrats and Hollywood actors still defend him to this day, including, Whoopi Goldberg, Martin Scorcese, Woody Allen, David Lynch, Wim Wenders, Pedro Almodovar, Tilda Swinton and Monica Bellucci.
Democratic State Senator from Alaska, George Jacko, was found guilty of sexual harassment of an underage legislative page.
Democratic State Representative candidate for Colorado, Andrew Myers, was convicted for possession of child pornography and enticing children.
Democratic Illinois Congressman, Gus Savage was investigated by the Democrat-controlled House Committee on Ethics for attempting to rape an underage female Peace Corps volunteer in Zaire. The Committee concluded that while the events did occur his apology was sufficient and took no further action.
Democratic activist, donor, and spokesperson for Subway, Jared Fogle, was convicted of distribution and receipt of child pornography and traveling to engage in illicit sexual conduct with a minor.
Democratic State Department official, Carl Carey, under Hillary Clinton’s state department, was arrested on ten counts of child porn possession.
Democratic Maine Assistant Attorney General, James Cameron, was sentenced to just over 15 years in federal prison for seven counts of child porn possession, receipt and transmission.
Democratic State Department official, Daniel Rosen, under Hillary Clinton’s state department, was arrested and charged with allegedly soliciting sex from a minor over the internet.
Democratic State Department official, James Cafferty, pleaded guilty to one count of transportation of child pornography.
Democratic radio host, Bernie Ward, plead guilty to one count of sending child pornography over the Internet.
Democratic deputy attorney general from California, Raymond Liddy, was arrested for possession of child pornography.
Democratic Illinois State Representative, Keith Farnham, has resigned and was charged with possession of child pornography and has been accused of bragging at an online site about sexually molesting a 6-year-old girl.
Democratic spokesperson for the Arkansas Democratic Party, Harold Moody, Jr, was charged with distribution and possession of child pornography.
Democratic Radnor Township Board of Commissioners member, Philip Ahr, resigned from his position after being charged with possession of child pornography and abusing children between 2 and 6 years-old.
Democratic activist and BLM organizer, Charles Wade, was arrested and charged with human trafficking and underage prostitution.
Democratic Texas attorney and activist, Mark Benavides, was charged with having sex with a minor, inducing a child under 18 to have sex and compelling prostitution of at least nine legal clients and possession of child pornography. He was found guilty on six counts of sex trafficking.
Democratic Virginia Delegate, Joe Morrissey, was indicted on charges connected to his relationship with a 17-year-old girl and was charged with supervisory indecent liberties with a minor, electronic solicitation of a minor, possession of child pornography and distribution of child pornography.
Democratic Massachusetts Congressman, Gerry Studds, was censured by the House of Representatives after he admitted to an inappropriate relationship with a 17-year-old page.
Democratic Former Mayor of Stillwater, New York, Rick Nelson was plead guilty to five counts of possession of child pornography of children less than 16 years of age.
Democratic Former Mayor of Clayton, New York, Dale Kenyon, was indicted for sexual acts against a teenager.
Democratic Former Mayor of Hubbard, Ohio, Richard Keenan, was given a life sentence in jail for raping a 4-year-old girl.
Democratic Former Mayor of Winston, Oregeon, Kenneth Barrett, was arrested for setting up a meeting to have sex with a 14-year-old girl who turned out to be a police officer.
Democratic Former Mayor of Randolph, Nebraska, Dwayne L. Schutt, was arrested and charged with four counts of felony third-degree sexual assault of a child and one count of intentional child abuse.
Democratic Former Mayor of Dawson, Georgia, Christopher Wright, was indicted on the charges of aggravated child molestation, aggravated sodomy, rape, child molestation and statutory rape of an 11-year-old boy and a 12-year-old girl.
Democratic Former Mayor of Stockton, California, Anthony Silva, was charged with providing alcohol to young adults during a game of strip poker that included a 16-year-old boy at a camp for underprivileged children run by the mayor.
Democratic Former Mayor of Millbrook, New York, Donald Briggs, was arrested and charged with inappropriate sexual contact with a person younger than 17.
Democratic party leader for Victoria County, Texas, Stephen Jabbour, plead guilty to possession and receiving over half a million child pornographic images.
Democratic activist and fundraiser, Terrence Bean, was arrested on charges of sodomy and sex abuse in a case involving a 15-year-old boy and when the alleged victim declined to testify, and the judge dismissed the case.
Democratic Party Chairman for Davidson County, Tennessee, Rodney Mullin, resigned amid child pornography allegations.
Democratic activist, Andrew Douglas Reed, pleaded guilty to a multiple counts of 2nd-degree sexual exploitation of a minor for producing child pornography.
Democratic official from Terre Haute, Indiana, David Roberts was sentenced to federal prison for producing and possessing child pornography including placing hidden cameras in the bedrooms and bathrooms at a home he shared with two minor female victims.
Democratic California Congressman, Tony Cárdenas, is being sued in LA County for allegedly sexually abused a 16-year-old girl.
Democratic aide to Senator Barbara Boxer, Jeff Rosato, plead guilty to charges of trading in child pornography.
Democratic Alaskan State Representative, Dean Westlake, resigned from his seat after the media published a report alleging he fathered a child with a 16-year-old girl when he was 28.
Democratic New Jersey State Assemblyman, Neil Cohen, was convicted of possession and distribution of child pornography.
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#13134 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 08:37

Individual-1 plans to ignore the SCOTUS and make an end-run around the balance of powers of the constitution to place an anti-person-of-color question on the census - all with the help of AG Barr.

Hello? Nancy Pelosi? Are you there? Are you awake? This is a two-for-one sale chance. Start the damn impeachment inquiry and give the House the bite it needs to actually get answers.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#13135 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 09:58

 johnu, on 2019-July-11, 04:51, said:

I'm just trying to help Chas be the best man he can be by getting him to show some integrity and honor his word. Nothing more, nothing less. B-)

You're falling into the classic troll trap.

The whole point of trolling is to get attention and trigger angry responses. They're not interested in participating in a reasonable debate. The only way to combat them is to ignore them.

I admit that it's really hard to do that. There's always a small glimmer of hope that if you make just the right argument, they'll understand and admit that you're right, or at least go away defeated. But it's like the Chinese finger trap -- the more you fight, the more it encourages them.

It's like a parent ignoring a child who's throwing a temper tantrum.

#13136 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 11:09

 barmar, on 2019-July-11, 09:58, said:

You're falling into the classic troll trap.

The whole point of trolling is to get attention and trigger angry responses. They're not interested in participating in a reasonable debate. The only way to combat them is to ignore them.

I admit that it's really hard to do that. There's always a small glimmer of hope that if you make just the right argument, they'll understand and admit that you're right, or at least go away defeated. But it's like the Chinese finger trap -- the more you fight, the more it encourages them.

It's like a parent ignoring a child who's throwing a temper tantrum.

It's almost always futile to reason with a kid once they reach the meltdown phase. A trick I learned recently is to say "I'm going in the other room now." It works for tantrums. Not sure if it works for trolls.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#13137 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 12:17

 y66, on 2019-July-11, 11:09, said:

It's almost always futile to reason with a kid once they reach the meltdown phase. A trick I learned recently is to say "I'm going in the other room now." It works for tantrums. Not sure if it works for trolls.

What works best for trolls is to lock the front door with them standing on the outside of it. But it is always difficult to define the line precisely where the trolling is serious enough to warrant that and many forum moderation teams abdicate their responsibility tot heir communities by refusing to make any decisions at all in this area.

At the end of the day, it is what it is. You choose to be a part of the community or not. One of the great things about the internet is that there is always an alternative community available. Breaking up communities in this way is in the end a success for the trolls. Thinking about the posters that BBF has lost since the trolls turned up here, it is difficult to escape the idea that there might be a link.
(-: Zel :-)
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#13138 User is online   kenberg 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 13:22

I see that there have been 13,137 posts in this thread. Maybe a record for longevity. It might well be dying.

For myself, this has little to do with any trolling, real or alleged. I more eagerly turn to some people's posts than others, but that's only natural.
Ken
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#13139 User is offline   johnu 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 13:24

 jjbrr, on 2019-July-11, 07:41, said:

...


Nobody is disputing that there are bad people doing very bad things on both ends of the spectrum. What's ironic is that the (right fringe) Republicans constantly and consistently wrap themselves in the arms of god and make the unholy proclamation that they are the keepers of religion and the voice of moral authority.

This goes back farther than the "moral" majority, and now the evangelical right supports the Republicans by an overwhelming majority. Why they support Dennison is beyond me. He's as genuinely religious as most facist dictators from the past which is to say almost as religious as an atheist.

DID TRUMP FIND RELIGION? DON’T HOLD YOUR BREATH

Quote

When asked about his favorite Bible verses, Trump says he does “not want to get into specifics” and then whiffs on the follow-up question on whether he is more of an “Old Testament guy or a New Testament guy.”

Trump thinks for a second and answers: “Probably equal, I think. It just an incredible…the whole Bible is an incredible…” and then starts talking about how he jokes that his own book The Art of the Deal is only his second favorite book.

IMO, when somebody claims the moral high ground and religious authority, they set themselves up to be judged by a higher set of standards than the average person.
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#13140 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2019-July-11, 18:30

I see the stable genius has folded his losing census hand and he is now skulking away. I suspect he got the message (from Pelosi, probably, by way of Barr) that if he tried to bypass the constitution he really would get impeached.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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