[Cyberyeti]

Something we presented our opponents with this afternoon.

What would you assume X and 2N meant over a very old style precision 2♦ (4414/4405 11-15) without discussion ?

What methods would you play if you had discussed it ?

[gwnn]

Ideal: X should be a takeout double of clubs. 2NT should just be 15-18 hcp balanced as usual with some stops.

With a random partner I'd assume X meant an opening hand with diamonds and 2NT as above.

With some partners I'd assume X meant 12-14 balanced ish or a very strong hand.

[SteveMoe]

Double=15+ balanced or strong over call.
2N=minors
2M natural overcall.

[aguahombre]

We haven't found a need to get active with takeout doubles in Direct seat when we already know that suits will be breaking badly for us. Double to show a balanced 15+ and consider defending seems to work well -- with a direct 2NT reserved for a nice trick-taker.

[gwnn]

These days many people include 3415/4315 also in 2D so things are not guaranteed to break badly. You're losing out of a cheap way of describing your hands with shortish clubs if you are going to keep your doubles so strong.

[aguahombre]

gwnn, on 2015-March-30, 00:40, said:

These days many people include 3415/4315 also in 2D so things are not guaranteed to break badly. You're losing out of a cheap way of describing your hands with shortish clubs if you are going to keep your doubles so strong.

Cyber gave us the disclosure for the thread...4-4-1-4 or 4-4-0-5. I was discussing that, and don't think I will change our partnership agreements over the Precision 2D just in case they have given misinformation.

And yes, we have different methods over less disciplined 2D 3- suit openings, but they are not in play here.

[gwnn]

Oh OK. I also saw that it was specifically 4414/4405 but thought that most people would have the same agreements over both (I would definitely do). Anyway I would stick to the same agreements over both. If partner doesn't want to play against a 4-1 split he can go ahead and start penalizing them. I don't think they can sit in 2♦x too often.

[Cyberyeti]

OK, I'll now give you the problem opps had at table:

---

X was undiscussed

[helene_t]

if double was undiscussed probably 4nt now is undiscussed as well.

I bid 5♦, hoping p takes my double the way I meant it.