[steve2005]

Over strong 2N openings and rebids these items which am considering changing in a 2/1 system. Currently:

3♣ - Puppet Stayman, 3♠ - Minor Suit Stayman, 5♣ - Super Gerber

4♣ - transfer to ♦ and a least a mild slam try [4N-negative possibly to play, 4♦ good hand for slam (4♥ is now RKC) other bids are cuebids]

4♠ - transfer to ♣ and a least a mild slam try [4N-negative possibly to play, 5♣ good hand for slam, possible to go higher which forces slam]

Want to use:

3N - transfer to ♣ and a least a mild slam try [4N-negative possibly to play, 4♣ good hand for slam (4♦ is now RKC) other bids are cuebids]

4♣ - transfer to ♦ remains same

Now if you just want to sign-off in 3N you have to use Puppet Stayman.

4♠ - would have no meaning, so is available for use

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Now the disadvantages are:

You might forget convention and just bid 3N

Your giving information away by bidding Puppet Stayman unnecessarily, which could occur if 22(45) no 3-card major or (4333) and no ruffing potential.

Advantages:

investigating ♣ slams done lower

possible use for 4♠

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Thoughts?

[ArtK78]

I use Puppet Stayman and 4 suit transfers. It is a lot simpler.

[helene_t]

3s -> clubs
4c-> diamonds
No need for minor suit stayman. We need a way to find a minor suit fit after puppet anyway

[Zelandakh]

I also use what Helene wrote. 2NT - 4♠ is range ask Baron, freeing up 4NT as a puppet to 5♣ (and hence 5♣ is a puppet to 5♦). That essentially means that every response from 4♣ to 5♣ is a transfer in addition to 3♦, 3♥ and 3♠. The 3♠ club transfer has all of the 1-suited slam hands plus 5-5 minors. (31)(45) hands are handled using the specialist sequences 2NT - 3♣; 3♦ - 4M so they do not need to be included in 3♠.

[whereagles]

Best scheme I've seen so far for minors is Forrester's one

2NT ..??

3♠ = transfer to 3NT. To play or slammish.
4m = slam try in linked major
4M = to play (hand hogging mechanism)

Now

2NT 3♠
3NT ??

4♣ = 5♣-4♦ slammish. Opener bids 4♦ fit (cues ensue), 4M club fit + cue, 4NT misfit!!!, 5m fit no slam interest.
4♦ = 4♣-5♦ slammish. Opener bids 4M fit in the linked minor, 4NT misfit, 5m fit no slam interest.
4M = slammish 6+ in linked minor. Opener can bid 4NT as RKCB (teams) or bad hand for slam/to play (pairs).
4NT = slammish 55 minors, but not forcing.
5♣ = slammish 55 minors, forcing. Opener bids 5♦ fit looking for 7, 5M club fit looking for grand slam, 5NT = yucky hand in context.

You can add also 44 hands stuff:

2NT 3NT = baron

This is an anti-mnemonic convention, though... someone is bound to forget it at some stage.

[Zelandakh]

Why do you find it better to bid 2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4NT as a slam try with 5-5 minors rather than 2NT - 3♠; 4♣ or 2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4♦♥♠? Or 2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4M rather than 2NT - 3♠; 4♣/2NT - 3♠; 3NT - 4♣ or 2NT - 4♣ for that matter? It is true that you are 2 steps lower on the 5-4 minor hands but that comes at the cost of not being able to find a 5-3 major suit fit. And that is without weighting the issue of not being able to have the auction 2NT - 3NT. Perhaps there is more to it but I am unconvinced this is "the best scheme" from this snippet.

[whereagles]

That is the scheme as I learned it from Forrester's "TRS" pamphlet (a semi-forcing pass system). If you can improve on it without messing up stuff, I'd be delighted

[helene_t]

We tried for a while playing semi-forcing pass in response to a 2NT opening but it didn't work so well.

[Zelandakh]

 whereagles, on 2014-September-03, 06:45, said:

That is the scheme as I learned it from Forrester's "TRS" pamphlet (a semi-forcing pass system). If you can improve on it without messing up stuff, I'd be delighted

Well I have posted the basics of my scheme a few times - you will have to tell me whether it is an improvement for you! There was a thread a while back in which Adam, CY and a few others also posted their 2NT response structures, so if you can find that one you can compare a whole bunch of possibilities all at once.

[Vampyr]

I like 3♠ "please bid 3NT", over which 4m is the longer or better minor in a two-suited hand, and 4M is single-suited in the corresponding minor. Direct 3NT is Baron, but in my experience it never comes up, so you can use it for whatever you want; even to ly with no minor-suit interest.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

For what it is worth...
Here's a structure from the May 2006 ACBL Bulletin :

2NT - 3S! = relay to 3NT
3NT - ?? then:
........ Pass = to play, ( Needed since direct 3N is major 44 )
........ 4C = slam try in clubs
........ 4D = slam try in diam
........ 4H = ♥ splinter, both minors
........ 4S = ♠ splinter, both minors
........ 4N = invitational to 6N ( both minors , no shortness?? 4/4, 4/5 or 5/4 )
........ 5N = forcing to 6N, invitational to 7N

[whereagles]

 Zelandakh, on 2014-September-03, 06:57, said:

There was a thread a while back in which Adam, CY and a few others also posted their 2NT response structures, so if you can find that one you can compare a whole bunch of possibilities all at once.

Linkie?

[kenrexford]

Here's another idea:

3♠ shows one or both minors, slam interest.

Opener's usual responses are to indicate which minor he would prefer if Responder has 5-5 in the minors. Opener bids 3NT with diamond preference or 4♣ with club preference.

If Opener prefers diamonds (bids 3NT), Responder can bid 4♣ with the club one-suiter. With either the diamond one-suiter or the minor two-suiter, diamonds are agreed. Responder can bid 4♥ as kickback, 5♦ as a mild non-descript invite, or can make a shortness bid (4♠, 4NT for hearts, or 5♣ for clubs) as another slam try.

If Responder hears 3NT (diamond preference) but has 2-2-4-5, he can bid 4♦, which does not agree diamonds, with clubs still in the picture.

If Opener, instead, bids 4♣ (prefers clubs), 4♥ agrees clubs and is Kickback, 4♠ is a shortness try, 4NT is shortness in hearts, and 5♣ is shortness in diamonds. There is no generic try.

What can go wrong?

1. Opener has 4522 or 5422? Yeah, right.

2. Responder has 2254 and Opener prefers clubs? Responder pre-anticipates this problem and bids instead 4♠ directly over 2NT with 2254.

[antonylee]

A reasonably simple scheme, that keeps 2N-3N as natural: 3S=C or C+D, 4C=D

2N-3S-...
... 3N: not interested
... ... 4C: C+D, not interested in cues
... ... ... 4D: still not interested
... ... ... ... 4H: RKC for D
... ... ... higher: interested, direct RKC response for D
... ... 4D: RKC for C
... ... 4M: (21)55, (30)55 splinter, interested in a cue in the other major
... 4C: interested
... ... 4D: RKC
... ... higher: cue
... higher: cue

2N-4C-...
... 4D: not interested
... ... 4H: RKC
... higher: direct RKC response for D (or cue, depending on your preferred style)

[Zelandakh]

 whereagles, on 2014-September-03, 09:14, said:

Linkie?

Sorry I cannot find the specific thread. I did find a fairly detailed write-up of my responses though so that will have to do. I don't think I changed anything in the last 2 years.

[whereagles]

Thx. I'll have a look.

[rhm]

 whereagles, on 2014-September-03, 05:08, said:

Best scheme I've seen so far for minors is Forrester's one

2NT ..??

3♠ = transfer to 3NT. To play or slammish.
4m = slam try in linked major
4M = to play (hand hogging mechanism)

Now

2NT 3♠
3NT ??

....

My guess is using this approach when the bidding starts

2NT 3♠

that I will have no intention of bidding past 3NT at least 9 times out of 10.

A few times times the bidding will continue

2NT 3♠ (DBL)
p 3NT

Opening leader leads a spade, 3NT is down.
In the other room opening leader led a heart after 2NT - 3NT and 3NT made

Next time the bidding goes

2NT 3♠
3NT pass

Opening leader had a close decision between the majors. He led a heart and 3NT went down
In the other room opening leader led a spade and the contract made.

Is it all worthwhile?

Rainer Herrmann

[whereagles]

@Rainer: after having played the method for many years I can say it only mattered once.

If it bothers a player, she can always keep 2NT-3NT as natural.

[lowerline]

An alternative is:

• Keep 3nt to play
• Use 4♣/♦ as major suit transfers
• Use 4♥/♠ as minor suit transfers

Continuation after minor suit transfer:

• 2nt-4♥ then 4♠ interest; 4nt no interest, no fit; 5♣ no interest, but fit
• 2nt-4♠ then 4nt no interest, no fit; 5♣ interest; 5♦ no interest, but fit

[Vampyr]

I use a method sort of similar to Forrester's, where over 3NT 4m is a two-suited minor hand, where m is longer or better, and 4M is a single-suited slam try in the linked minor.