[Jinksy]

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What now?

[ETA] - pick up partnership on BBO, with no agreements on rebid style.

[billw55]

Matchpoints? 1NT wtp.

If opener's sequence promises unbalanced or strong, I will reconsider.

[kenrexford]

The question is entirely dependent upon Opener's rebid style. For me, for instance, 2♣ is very appealing, because I would rebid 1NT with 4-3-3-3, thus making 1♠ purify clubs to at least 4-card. With 4-1-4-4, I would open 1♦. With 4-2-3-4 or 4-3-2-4, I would usually rebid 1NT unless I had a COV in the black suits, which also argues for pulling out of 1NT. However, this gets a tad tricky at MP, for me. Perhaps 2♠ on the expected Moysian is better than 2♣. Sure -- I might have 3-card spades as Opener, which is also a rare problem, but that hand bids again.

[monikrazy]

Is 1S forcing? If yes, I bid 1N. If not I pass with some reservations.

Also relevant is whether opener can bid 1N over 1H even with spades if he is balanced and minimum. If he does, we feel better about passing.

[nige1]

 Jinksy, on 2014-August-25, 13:37, said:

What now?

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IMO 2♣ = 10, 3♣ = 9, 1N = 8, Pass = 7, 2♠ = 6
2 of a minor is not always a disaster. Partner is likely to have 5+ ♣.
Edited to add the Hog's 3♣ suggestion.

This post has been edited by nige1: 2014-August-27, 09:05

[diana_eva]

I really don't understand pass as an option, never would have crossed my mind. I'd bid 1NT and accept invite or cooperate to find a game if partner continues.

[MrAce]

1nt at any form of scoring. Pass is really a bad call, 1spade is NF to me but it still can be up to a bad 18

[akwoo]

1N.

Vulnerable at IMPs with 1♠ promising 5♣ and 4♠, I would consider 2♣.

[mikeh]

methods count and this hand type is a good advertisement for the style in which 1♠ promises 9+ black cards....rebidding 1N as opener on all balanced hands.

In standard methods, which are woeful in more ways than this, we have to guess, knowing that it is just a guess. Since 1N MAY not end the auction, and since we do hold 10 hcp, and since it is mps, where 120 may beat 110, we have to bid 1N.

Pass is silly, not because 1♠ is forcing (such an agreement is, on a deep level, unplayable) but because 1♠is very wide-range and we own far, far too much to pass.

2♠ is a good answer on a different hand.....say KQx KJxxx xx Jxx, but the diamond holding seems wrong for that action here.

[the hog]

If 1S shows an unbalanced hand with the blacks, I bid 3C. This is too good for 2C with 3 great cards.
If you are playing a style where 1S shows a random 13 cards with 4S. I bid 1NT.

[Cascade]

Unless you are counting the ♣J I don't think this hand has three great cards. ♠KQ are great; ♥KJ are dubious and ♣J is better than it started out life but I wouldnt call it great.

[helene_t]

2 ♣ assuming that p promised four of them. Otherwise 2 ♠ assuming this is discussed. Pass with
some of the lols at the club who would have jumped with 16 points. Otherwise 1nt, trying to put up a happy face to inhibit the diamond lead. And then discuss the methods after the session

[Jinksy]

Just edited the OP, but to clarify for those who've already commented, this was a pickup partnership on BBO, with no discussion about rebid style (although P was from the US).

[msjennifer]

Even neglecting the CJ there are 9 hcp and hence playing any system pass is ruled out.A bid of 1NT is the correct bid telling partner a hand of 8 to bad 10 hcp and a balanced one at that.It does not promise a diamond guard.If partner has an unbalanced hand he will surely bid again.And after all with a balanced hand don't we all like to play in NT at matchpoints.!

[kenrexford]

 msjennifer, on 2014-August-26, 04:00, said:

Even neglecting the CJ there are 9 hcp and hence playing any system pass is ruled out.A bid of 1NT is the correct bid telling partner a hand of 8 to bad 10 hcp and a balanced one at that.It does not promise a diamond guard.If partner has an unbalanced hand he will surely bid again.And after all with a balanced hand don't we all like to play in NT at matchpoints.!

But, this is the mirror image of why 2C is appealing. If Opener can rely on a 2C bid with this hand, he will not feel required to bid simply because he's unbalanced, which many styles already promised, and will not therefore bid 2C when a massive misfit is more likely.

[helene_t]

 msjennifer, on 2014-August-26, 04:00, said:

If partner has an unbalanced hand he will surely bid again.

I don't think he will bid again with Axxx-x-Axx-KQxxx. But OK, with that hand 1NT will be good contract.

With AJxx-Qxx-K-Kxxxx I suppose some would bid 2♥, especially if playing strictly 4-cards up the line so that he knows that we can't have four diamonds unless we have 5+ hearts. But many would say that 2♥ would show extra values so that he has to pass 1NT.

[tobycurtis]

I had no idea there were so many people who bypass a 4-card spade suit rebid on balanced hands. Are there methods built in for finding 4-4 spade fits after a start of 1♣/♦ - 1♥; 1NT - ?

Even if 1♠ isn't 100% forcing, I wouldn't dream of passing with this almost-invitational hand. I don't know that partner has more clubs than spades, so I'm not gambling on 2♣/3♣ at matchpoints. I guess 1NT isn't so bad, but if partner does keep the auction alive, I don't want to be the one who has hinted at a diamond stopper, and I don't particularly want to be the declarer either. So I bid 2♠.

[mikeh]

 tobycurtis, on 2014-August-26, 07:53, said:

I had no idea there were so many people who bypass a 4-card spade suit rebid on balanced hands. Are there methods built in for finding 4-4 spade fits after a start of 1♣/♦ - 1♥; 1NT - ?

no...none of the experts who bypass spades here have any interest in playing a 4=4 major suit fit.

Ok....that was silly. Of course we do. There is one problem tho: the method of finding the 4=4 fit works only when responder has invitational or better values. We will play 1N on a 4=4 spade fit when opener has a weak 1N and responder less than invitational values. Sounds like the same 'problem' that weak 1N players have every time they open 1N, yet strangely they seem to 'get away with it', in that a very large number of players around the world (tho not as many in NA) play a weak notrump method.

In the meantime, we avoid problems like this one, and gain a lot on good hands as well (because responder knows at the 1-level whether opener is balanced or unbalanced, and this can be very useful.

[akwoo]

 tobycurtis, on 2014-August-26, 07:53, said:

I had no idea there were so many people who bypass a 4-card spade suit rebid on balanced hands. Are there methods built in for finding 4-4 spade fits after a start of 1♣/♦ - 1♥; 1NT - ?

Yes - New Minor Forcing or Checkback Stayman or more sophisticated versions of either work well for this purpose.

The only problem, as already pointed out, is that these require an invitational or better hand.

[Stephen Tu]

 mikeh, on 2014-August-25, 22:41, said:

Pass is silly, not because 1♠ is forcing (such an agreement is, on a deep level, unplayable)

Uh, could you explain to me the deep reasons why playing 1♠ forcing opposite a normal say 6+ or 5+ minimum is unplayable?