Help
scoring: imps
vul: none vul
would you open this in 4th seat and what are the reasons?
Thanks,
Eagles
Would You Open in 4th Seat
#1
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,831
- Joined: 2011-June-08
- Gender:Male
- Location:UK Near London
- Interests:Crystal Palace
Posted 2014-August-18, 04:16
scoring: imps
vul: none vul
would you open this in 4th seat and what are the reasons?
Thanks,
Eagles
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
#2
- The Abbess
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,196
- Joined: 2004-April-22
- Gender:Female
- Location:UK
Posted 2014-August-18, 04:25
I wouldn't. Requiring 15 pearson points is too dogmatic, but opening with 10 pearson points is too much for me. If opps don't have a great fit in one or both major suits, we will have a misfit. 3♣ could easily be too much. Above all I fear partner doubling them in a makeable contract. I don't have much defense against spades.
Opening could, of course, work. Opps might find their spade fit and go down because of the 5-0 split.
If I were to open, it would be 3♣.
Opening could, of course, work. Opps might find their spade fit and go down because of the 5-0 split.
If I were to open, it would be 3♣.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,247
- Joined: 2005-March-18
- Gender:Male
Posted 2014-August-18, 06:46
If the hand satisfies your req. for a 3C opening bid, make the bid,
unfortunately, for most, the hand will be too weak.
Hence pass.
With kind regards
Marlowe
unfortunately, for most, the hand will be too weak.
Hence pass.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#4
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,660
- Joined: 2011-February-12
Posted 2014-August-18, 16:43
3c
Matters not MP or IMPS though at IMPS I would pass if we were ahead as a form of
insurance against the opps making 4M. At MP its only 1 board. The 3c bid tells
p many things you felt you had enough offensive fire power to make 3c opposite
their expected holding and more importantly you are letting your p know you do
not have a lot of defense so p will x with care and we can honor any x they make.
It is not all that likely 3c will come to any great harm and p should not go too
crazy about bidding further since your 3c bid is primarily designed to warn p
about the probabilities of game being low.
Matters not MP or IMPS though at IMPS I would pass if we were ahead as a form of
insurance against the opps making 4M. At MP its only 1 board. The 3c bid tells
p many things you felt you had enough offensive fire power to make 3c opposite
their expected holding and more importantly you are letting your p know you do
not have a lot of defense so p will x with care and we can honor any x they make.
It is not all that likely 3c will come to any great harm and p should not go too
crazy about bidding further since your 3c bid is primarily designed to warn p
about the probabilities of game being low.
#5
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 457
- Joined: 2009-August-31
- Gender:Male
- Location:Hilliard, Ohio
- Interests:income taxes, american history, energy
Posted 2014-August-18, 17:22
If I were to open 3♣ in fourth seat I want partner to be open to the possibility of game in 3NT. This hand clearly does not qualify for this.
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,512
- Joined: 2003-February-16
Posted 2014-August-19, 02:57
I can not bring myself to consider bidding something other than pass. This hand does not meet any requirements for an opening imo.
#7
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2014-August-19, 03:35
3 club for me
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#8
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,693
- Joined: 2006-April-17
- Gender:Male
- Location:Rochester, NY
Posted 2014-August-19, 10:02
When I first got back into bridge, playing rubber at lunchtime and duplicate in the evenings, in one of my first lunchtime games, I preempted in fourth seat on a typical 1st/2nd seat hand, with long spades. It did not go well. Later, one of my colleagues, who'd been sitting behind me kibitzing, asked "why would you want to preempt in fourth seat?" "I have no idea," I replied. 
On this hand, I pass.
On this hand, I pass.
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#9
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,866
- Joined: 2008-July-13
Posted 2014-August-19, 11:47
yes 3c. i 'pre-empt' in 4th because i expect to make.
#10
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 153
- Joined: 2012-October-18
Posted 2014-August-19, 17:35
yes, this hand is a full open and therefore too good to pass
if ops want to balance over 3c at equal vul good luck to them
if ops want to balance over 3c at equal vul good luck to them
#11
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,871
- Joined: 2007-April-22
- Location:Santa Clara, CA
Posted 2014-August-20, 03:22
One of the advantages of playing aggressive openings is you can pass with confidence with a hand like this.
#12
- Group: Members
- Posts: 3
- Joined: 2012-August-30
Posted 2014-August-20, 05:17
It's a 2C opening if you play fantunes.
#13
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,696
- Joined: 2006-May-18
- Gender:Not Telling
Posted 2014-August-20, 05:52
Trigona, on 2014-August-20, 05:17, said:
It's a 2C opening if you play fantunes.
That would be true in seats 1 and 2 - it is less clear in seats 3 and 4.
(-: Zel :-)
#14
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,728
- Joined: 2003-March-07
- Gender:Male
- Location:Laos
- Interests:Wagner and Bridge
Posted 2014-August-20, 05:58
wank, on 2014-August-19, 11:47, said:
yes 3c. i 'pre-empt' in 4th because i expect to make.
And when pd bids the likely 3NT how many do you expect to go down? Obvious pass.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#15
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2014-August-20, 06:22
the hog, on 2014-August-20, 05:58, said:
And when pd bids the likely 3NT how many do you expect to go down? Obvious pass.
I don't know him but I personally expect to make 3 NT more often than not. And In those hands that it doesn't make, I expect a hand from pd that makes 3 NT a very reasonable contract.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#16
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,831
- Joined: 2011-June-08
- Gender:Male
- Location:UK Near London
- Interests:Crystal Palace
Posted 2014-August-20, 06:29
thanks folks,
well I passed...
unfortunatley i don't have the hand record as this was a bbo TM that the TD cancelled when his side were doing badly!
other side were in 3N - 1 I think
Eagles
well I passed...
unfortunatley i don't have the hand record as this was a bbo TM that the TD cancelled when his side were doing badly!
other side were in 3N - 1 I think
Eagles
"definitely that's what I like to play when I'm playing standard - I want to be able to bid diamonds because bidding good suits is important in bridge" - Meckstroth's opinion on weak 2 diamond
#17
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2014-August-20, 07:53
eagles123, on 2014-August-20, 06:29, said:
thanks folks,
well I passed...
unfortunatley i don't have the hand record as this was a bbo TM that the TD cancelled when his side were doing badly!
other side were in 3N - 1 I think
Eagles
well I passed...
unfortunatley i don't have the hand record as this was a bbo TM that the TD cancelled when his side were doing badly!
other side were in 3N - 1 I think
Eagles
So if It was not cancelled you and passers would win 2 IMPs? What if 3 NT made?
I mean it's not like we are about to turn a plus score to minus. I would be thrilled if my pd bids 3 NT when we were about to write "passed" on scorecard at TM. Give em a 50 or 100 if pd has a hand that he believed we could make 9 tricks. With those club honors we hold and a pd who is bidding 3 NT and both of opps coming from pass no one is doubling this 3 NT.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#18
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,275
- Joined: 2005-January-08
- Gender:Male
- Location:Tulsa, Oklahoma
- Interests:Art, music
Posted 2014-August-20, 11:49
What Helene said.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
#19
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,013
- Joined: 2005-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
- Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.
Posted 2014-August-20, 14:09
Late to the party but I pass.
If I were to open, it would be 3♣ but I see too many down sides.
In no particular order:
1. they get to bid and make a major suit game. Improbable? Yes. Impossible? No.
2. partner stretches and we go minus on a hand on which we could have passed it out
3. we go down in 3♣. I wouldn't see that as a big risk, but it could happen if partner's 7-8 hcp were in the majors
The upsides are we make 3♣ (maybe an o/t or 2), or partner bids and we make a game. Maybe they compete and go down.
My sense is that on balance the downsides outweigh the upsides, but this is a gut sense and I accept that the experience of others may lead them to be more optimistic.
If I were to open, it would be 3♣ but I see too many down sides.
In no particular order:
1. they get to bid and make a major suit game. Improbable? Yes. Impossible? No.
2. partner stretches and we go minus on a hand on which we could have passed it out
3. we go down in 3♣. I wouldn't see that as a big risk, but it could happen if partner's 7-8 hcp were in the majors
The upsides are we make 3♣ (maybe an o/t or 2), or partner bids and we make a game. Maybe they compete and go down.
My sense is that on balance the downsides outweigh the upsides, but this is a gut sense and I accept that the experience of others may lead them to be more optimistic.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#20
- 5-level belongs to me
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,128
- Joined: 2004-August-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Glasgow Scotland
- Interests:Poems Computers
Posted 2014-August-20, 15:20
For me, a 3rd in hand 3 bid shows a "solid" suit (e.g. ♣ A K Q x x x), so I wouldn't open. If this hand fits your agreements, however, then I think it's reasonable to open 3♣. ♠ are likely to split badly for opponents and you have lots of playing tricks. At MPs, bidding would be less fraught than at IMPs.