[Behemont1]

You're playing teams game, sitting in the 2nd positioin, vul against nonvul holding
♠63
♥AKQ9743
♦Q4
♣42

Your opening bid? I suppose it's either 1♥ or 4♥. If you open 1♥ and partner answers 1♠ meaning 0-4 spades and 5-11 points, what's your rebid?

EDIT: Your RHO has passed.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Open gambling 3NT.

[kenrexford]

I open 3H red on white. Seems easy. I have a 7 card suit, poor defense, and lousy shape. I have 6 losers, which is what partner expects for a red on white preempt.

[mike777]

 Behemont1, on 2014-June-03, 16:23, said:

You're playing teams game, sitting in the 2nd positioin, vul against nonvul holding
♠63
♥AKQ9743
♦Q4
♣42

Your opening bid? I suppose it's either 1♥ or 4♥. If you open 1♥ and partner answers 1♠ meaning 0-4 spades and 5-11 points, what's your rebid?

EDIT: Your RHO has passed.

1h then 2h no problem yet.

open 3h is second choice.

[Fluffy]

I'd rebid 2 hearts only if I picked that route

[mike777]

dup

[dake50]

I open 3H red on white. Seems easy. I have a 7 card suit, poor defense, and lousy shape. I have 6 losers, which is what partner expects for a red on white preempt. -- kenrexford


*** And solid 7 tricks for 3NT?????

*** That is certainly NOT "Seems easy." as partner expects.

[kenrexford]

 dake50, on 2014-June-04, 09:13, said:

I open 3H red on white. Seems easy. I have a 7 card suit, poor defense, and lousy shape. I have 6 losers, which is what partner expects for a red on white preempt. -- kenrexford


*** And solid 7 tricks for 3NT?????

*** That is certainly NOT "Seems easy." as partner expects.

A thing that cannot ever be shown is a thing that is easy to disregard.

A seven-card suit headed by the Ace-King-Queen is nice for 3NT if partner has two quicks and control. But, barring a 2♥ opening and Ogust, no approach allows discovery of the Ace-King-Queen combo. If I open 4♥, I have already bypassed 3NT. If I open 1♥, no rebid shows solid hearts unless there is a 2/1 bid, and then only if I play that the rebid shows a solid suit, but even then I cannot get to 3NT. The hand is too strong for 2♥-P-2NT-P-3NT, and that doesn't even work because he expects a 6-card suit. Plus, he won't ask with two quicks anyway.

So, it is "easy" because no other options work and because I meet the definition of the 3♥ call exactly. I am allowed to have a solid suit. In fact, if you think it through, a 3M call red on white usually features a very good suit anyway. If you need to have a 6-loser hand and a 7-card suit, the solid seven and out is one option. Barring that, you need either an eight-card suit (where 4♥ is an option) or a semi-solid suit with a trick on the outside (or a 4-card side suit). With the 4-card side suit, you end up with a plausible 4♥ opening also. Thus, a 3M call red on white that actually qualifies is usually based on a fairly good suit anyway, and any problems are bolstered by a plausible entry.

On top of all this, the fact that 3NT might be the ideal contract on a rare occasion is not cause to go into weird worlds and suffer the loss of preemptive value, IMO.

[Trinidad]

 kenrexford, on 2014-June-04, 09:44, said:

The hand is too strong for 2♥-P-2NT-P-3NT

I agree. But in my world, that makes it too strong for 3♥ too. There is no room between a weak two (or a preempt) and an opening bid. If it is too strong for a preempt, it is an opening bid.

Rik

[kenrexford]

 Trinidad, on 2014-June-04, 11:29, said:

I agree. But in my world, that makes it too strong for 3♥ too. There is no room between a weak two (or a preempt) and an opening bid. If it is too strong for a preempt, it is an opening bid.

Rik

I have no problem with deciding to open 1♥ or with playing a method where 1♥ is a legitimate opening. The hand has 2 1/2 quick tricks, 11 HCP, 13 points with distribution, no rebid problems, and 20 by Rule-of-Twenty count. Only Cansino Count fails. So, the hand "qualifies" for a 1♥ opening.

My style/judgment, though, is that an opening bid with a one-suiter should offer some defensive value, as well. This hand produces about 1.5 defensive tricks (as the Qx is probably carrying more defensive weight than offensive). That's a tad shy of the reason for the 2/5 quicks. With a one-suiter, I tend to like the preemptive value much more than the constructive/defensive value with this type of hand. Add in the single focus (as to strain and SUITS), and this seems like a clear preempt. Technically having an opening hand by most definitions should not, IMO, rule out a preempt, when Red on White. Any other colors, and I am with you. RvW is a different beast entirely.

In fact, to me a RvW "preempt" is more of a descriptive/constructive call than a true preempt. The preemptive value is secondary, although important.

[whereagles]

I would choose any of

3H
3NT gamblng
4H

If 1H is chosen instead, then 2H rebid is the logical consequence.

[kenrexford]

 whereagles, on 2014-June-04, 13:59, said:

I would choose any of

3H
3NT gamblng
4H

If 1H is chosen instead, then 2H rebid is the logical consequence.

That's useful. LOL So, you would not consider a psychic or a slightly off-shape but adjusted up 1NT?

Actually, the adjusted up 1NT is funny. I like that.

[kenrexford]

 whereagles, on 2014-June-04, 13:59, said:

I would choose any of

3H
3NT gamblng
4H

If 1H is chosen instead, then 2H rebid is the logical consequence.

That's useful. LOL So, you would not consider a psychic or a slightly off-shape but adjusted up 1NT?

Actually, the adjusted up 1NT is funny. I like that.

[aguahombre]

Not being a clever operator, I open what shows 7 tricks for a heart contract systemically --at least six of those tricks being in the heart suit. That would be our NAMYATS 4H opening, which we don't use in 1st or 2nd seat with all the random possibilities which are popular these days.

[dake50]

A thing that cannot ever be shown is a thing that is easy to disregard.

A seven-card suit headed by the Ace-King-Queen is nice for 3NT if partner has two quicks and control. But, barring a 2♥ opening and Ogust, no approach allows discovery of the Ace-King-Queen combo. If I open 4♥, I have already bypassed 3NT. If I open 1♥, no rebid shows solid hearts unless there is a 2/1 bid, and then only if I play that the rebid shows a solid suit, but even then I cannot get to 3NT. The hand is too strong for 2♥-P-2NT-P-3NT, and that doesn't even work because he expects a 6-card suit. Plus, he won't ask with two quicks anyway.

So, it is "easy" because no other options work and because I meet the definition of the 3♥ call exactly. -- kenrexford

*** The very point of having an expert forum.
For you to assert ** standard treatment** as your defense denigrates anyone who sees 7-solid is not a standard hand.
An expert strategist would at least acknowledge this problem and bemoan 7-solid is bad for the balance sheet for preempts.
Why on earth do you think the question was posed??? To get instructed in preempt standards???

[whereagles]

ken, ye master of dbl post self-pwnage, 1NT didn't cross my mind because I don't usually play the weak NT

[the hog]

1H followed by 3H. Looks obvious to me.
Odd question and even more odd answers especially in the expert forum. These are answers I would expect in the B/I forum.

[wank]

4h is incredibly bad. noone outside croatia would ever think of it. we have the phrase 'a croatian flat board', where we collect a penalty from some absurd pre-empt and go back to teammates who perpetrated the same absurdity. in fact you might notice a recurring theme, 3 of your 7 posts upto now have been asking if you should pre-empt on totally unsuitable hands.

and for the first time ever the hog has been caught overbidding. this is a basic 1h, 2h hand. if partner can't invite over that, you're not missing anything good.

[the hog]

6 loser hand Wank.

[kenrexford]

 dake50, on 2014-June-04, 19:12, said:

A thing that cannot ever be shown is a thing that is easy to disregard.

A seven-card suit headed by the Ace-King-Queen is nice for 3NT if partner has two quicks and control. But, barring a 2♥ opening and Ogust, no approach allows discovery of the Ace-King-Queen combo. If I open 4♥, I have already bypassed 3NT. If I open 1♥, no rebid shows solid hearts unless there is a 2/1 bid, and then only if I play that the rebid shows a solid suit, but even then I cannot get to 3NT. The hand is too strong for 2♥-P-2NT-P-3NT, and that doesn't even work because he expects a 6-card suit. Plus, he won't ask with two quicks anyway.

So, it is "easy" because no other options work and because I meet the definition of the 3♥ call exactly. -- kenrexford

*** The very point of having an expert forum.
For you to assert ** standard treatment** as your defense denigrates anyone who sees 7-solid is not a standard hand.
An expert strategist would at least acknowledge this problem and bemoan 7-solid is bad for the balance sheet for preempts.
Why on earth do you think the question was posed??? To get instructed in preempt standards???

Ok. You win. I will bid the expert 1D, followed by a leaping 3H canapé. Classic MICS solution. Additionally, I get to show my side feature.