[mr1303]

---

What do you call here? (Supplementary post coming).

[gnasher]

I'd bid 3♠, and I didn't seriously consider anything else.

[billw55]

gnasher, on 2013-October-21, 06:54, said:

I'd bid 3♠, and I didn't seriously consider anything else.

White on red, and partner taking a freebid, I will seriously consider doubling 2NT. But first I will ask about it.

[ahydra]

Yes, what is 2NT? If natural, I double. If minors, I bid 3S.

ahydra

[c_corgi]

3S. It seems like they are having a misunderstanding, or partner has psyched. In the former case I want to describe my hand as quickly and accurately as possible and in the latter I don't want to field it.

[ggwhiz]

c_corgi, on 2013-October-21, 07:40, said:

or partner has psyched.

That's my bet but 3♠ is called for opposite long spades and a weak hand to get the lead against 3nt or whatever instead of a heart.

[MickyB]

ggwhiz, on 2013-October-21, 08:21, said:

That's my bet but 3♠ is called for opposite long spades and a weak hand to get the lead against 3nt or whatever instead of a heart.

Bidding 3♠ will not get partner to lead a spade against 3NT.

[RMB1]

MickyB, on 2013-October-21, 08:25, said:

Bidding 3♠ will not get partner to lead a spade against 3NT.

.. or at least declarer is unlikely to accept a spade lead from partner.

Infraction-directing calls are little-understood part of the game.

[Trinidad]

c_corgi, on 2013-October-21, 07:40, said:

3S. It seems like they are having a misunderstanding, or partner has psyched. In the former case I want to describe my hand as quickly and accurately as possible and in the latter I don't want to field it.

Why wouldn't you want to field it?

You (that is you, c_corgi) know just as much about this partner as your opponents: nothing.

I can see the vulnerability. In addition, I can see that 16+11+13 doesn't leave a lot for my partner. I can also see that there are lots of spades in the deck. And my partner has never psyched in his life.

16HCP + 11HCP + 13HCP + 4 spades, a 2NT bid and a takeout double + favorable vulnerability = "partner has psyched."

And I don't even know whether partner is male/female, black/white, tall/short!

If you don't have a history with this partner, you can field all you want, at your own risk.

Rik

[billw55]

Hmmm yes, partner could be in a classic tactical psyche situation. Weak, stiff or void spade, hearts to run to, white on red ... yeah, pretty suspicious. I guess much depends on my knowledge (or lack thereof) of this particular partner.

Then again, there are two other bidders at the table as well, who might have pysched. Although their conditions are not nearly as ripe for it as partner's.

Can we construct a layout where nobody has psyched?

[aguahombre]

Trinidad, on 2013-October-21, 09:02, said:

Why wouldn't you want to field it?

You (that is you, c_corgi) know just as much about this partner as your opponents: nothing.

I can see the vulnerability. In addition, I can see that 16+11+13 doesn't leave a lot for my partner. I can also see that there are lots of spades in the deck. And my partner has never psyched in his life.

16HCP + 11HCP + 13HCP + 4 spades, a 2NT bid and a takeout double + favorable vulnerability = "partner has psyched."

And I don't even know whether partner is male/female, black/white, tall/short!

If you don't have a history with this partner, you can field all you want, at your own risk.

Rik

Well done, until we get an answer about 2NT.

Maybe, just maybe, the shaggy dog is whether 2NT is alertable if not natural, here. I would immediately assume it showed 5+5+ minors and did not show much strength ---but would ask....and am not convinced that is alertable under the circumstances. 16+11+6(+) is a calculation available to all four players as well, and I think it would be my obligation to inquire.

The reason it probably isn't alertable (2N) is because it should not be alerted if it is not an agreed-upon convention for this auction.

If I find out that 2NT is a natural value bid by agreement, I will assume the Double at unfav was not the psyche; but I am more likely to find out from the doubler that he is guessing, too.

So, I probably must Double here as Opener --and let partner reveal her psyche if she had one.

[Trinidad]

billw55, on 2013-October-21, 09:10, said:

Can we construct a layout where nobody has psyched?

I find it very hard. Say South has 10HCP and a 3154 distribution. North has 10 HCP and 2533, that leaves partner with 4HCP and 4324. Now essentially nobody has their bid.

I could imagine that South has "an opening hand, too strong to overcall". Then South could e.g. hold 0454 with 12 HCP, North a 10 point 3433 hand and partner 2 HCP with 6124 distribution. I would not call that a psyche by any of the players. It shouldbe easy to find out by asking North what the double meant (or looking at the CC).

Rik

[mr1303]

2nt was not alerted, but you didn't ask.

If you do ask, it's natural, 10-12 with a heart stopper.

[mr1303]

The double was normal take-out

[aguahombre]

mr1303, on 2013-October-21, 09:32, said:

If you do ask, it's natural, 10-12 with a heart stopper.

I still would protect myself by doubling, not convinced that is a true agreement rather than a guess; and not taking a double shot for a ruling. Partner can still reveal by showing her obscene heart support if 2NTX floats to her.

[gnasher]

Trinidad, on 2013-October-21, 09:02, said:

Why wouldn't you want to field it?

In England (which is where the Autumn Congress takes place), if you field a psych you will be awarded 30%. Possibly that's the right thing to do anyway: if partner has psyched, 4♥x is likely to score less than 30%.

[aguahombre]

gnasher, on 2013-October-21, 12:19, said:

In England (which is where the Autumn Congress takes place), if you field a psych you will be awarded 30%. Possibly that's the right thing to do anyway: if partner has psyched, 4♥x is likely to score less than 30%.

I wouldn't think even in England using Bridge logic to work out a psyche carries a rigid automatic award (penalty); nor do I see any reason for Opener to bid 3S forcing 4H with that hand when he can double 3C via logic as well...allowing for the psyche because of the auction, not because of anything other than that. If Pard hasn't psyched Double will work well; if she has, she will bid 3H. No CPU, no nothing; just Bridge.

[RMB1]

campboy, on 2013-October-21, 13:23, said:

(This assumes it is MP, which looking back I can't see explicitly stated.)

The hand that looks most like this was in the Teams Final (IMPs).

[jallerton]

gnasher, on 2013-October-21, 12:19, said:

In England (which is where the Autumn Congress takes place), if you field a psych you will be awarded 30%. Possibly that's the right thing to do anyway: if partner has psyched, 4♥x is likely to score less than 30%.

This reasoning brings backs memories of the old Law 25B.

As it was teams, I think the TD would need to know the result in the other room. As I understand it, you would end up with the worse of [-3 IMPs and the result obtained by scoring up as ususual] plus a fine of the standard amount (another 3 IMPs, unless a repeat offence).

[aguahombre]

jallerton, on 2013-October-22, 00:51, said:

This reasoning brings backs memories of the old Law 25B.

As it was teams, I think the TD would need to know the result in the other room. As I understand it, you would end up with the worse of [-3 IMPs and the result obtained by scoring up as ususual] plus a fine of the standard amount (another 3 IMPs, unless a repeat offence).

And the offence was what? Using one's brain?