[fromageGB]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-October-07, 16:36, said:

In the EBU (England), where support doubles are rare among non-tournament players, both 2H promising 4 hearts and pass denying 3 hearts are alertable.

This is absolutely amazing! I know the EBU has daft policies, but the idea of alerting a natural 2♥ seems crazy. Luckily no-one has ever pulled me up for not alerting this. Is it not time the EBU changed to a more understandable and logical method? It seems that they rely upon everybody knowing the details of some arbitrary "EBU system" and if you make any call that deviates from this unknown basic, then it is supposed to be alerted.

"Potentially unexpected meaning" is meaningless if you don't know what they expect. There is confusion wherever you look. Take a natural jump overcall. Alert if it is weak, or alert if it is strong? What if it is a strength in between whatever those two extremes mean? What point count boundary separates alert from no alert? Does the shape of the hand affect this, and if so, in what way?

The whole idea seems completely impractical. A natural jump overcall should not be alerted. A natural suit raise of 3+ cards (the EBU got the definition of "natural bid" right) should not be alerted. I would leave it at that, and let the opponents ask if they want. However, if this is felt to be insufficient, I think if a partnership has a specific agreement about length or strength, then there should be unrestricted announcements. In the case of a suit raise after opponent's overcall you announce "4 cards" if you play that, or "11-15 points" for the jump overcall if you play that.

Then I can understand it.

[TMorris]

Re the EBU I assume you only alert the 2♥ bid as 4 when you are playing support doubles. If you are not playing support doubles I can't imagine it is alertable. This seems reasonable enough as it's common to raise with 3 card support so if you guarantee 4 card support at all times many would find this unusual.

[paulg]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-October-07, 16:36, said:

In the EBU (England), where support doubles are rare among non-tournament players, both 2H promising 4 hearts and pass denying 3 hearts are alertable.

mangurian, on 2013-October-07, 19:19, said:

Now I see...... In the USA the vast majority of "serious" players use support doubles even at the club level.

The difference is that England is a weak notrump country, particularly at club level but also amongst the majority of tournament players, and so the double is needed to show a strong notrump.

[paulg]

fromageGB, on 2013-October-09, 04:45, said:

This is absolutely amazing! I know the EBU has daft policies, but the idea of alerting a natural 2♥ seems crazy. Luckily no-one has ever pulled me up for not alerting this.

Perhaps no-one has been aware that you were concealing a partnership agreement? Of course the likelihood of detection is small unless it is a long match and, whatever, the likely damage is small, but in these Law-driven days some people like to know.

[ArtK78]

paulg, on 2013-October-09, 06:24, said:

The difference is that England is a weak notrump country, particularly at club level but also amongst the majority of tournament players, and so the double is needed to show a strong notrump.

If you say so. I use support doubles with a mini-NT structure.