[Onno]

http://newinbridge.c...er-our-game-wbf

Interested in opinions.

[hrothgar]

As a consumer, I am strongly opposed to any kind of exclusivity provision. And I am sorry if the following comes across as racist, but I am not going to deliberately give a random executable developed by a Chinese company to have access to my hard drive.

With this said and done, if I were running the WBF and someone came and offered me a boatload of money, I might very well find a self serving justification to take it (Consumers be damned).

If folks are genuinely opposed to this sort of thing - and I think that they should be - the best option is to put a better system in place (and do so quickly).

From my perspective, a "better" system would include a standardized interface that any third party could connect to an use to provision their own broadcast services.

[paulg]

hrothgar, on 2013-September-25, 09:40, said:

And I am sorry if the following comes across as racist, but I am not going to deliberately give a random executable developed by a Chinese company to have access to my hard drive.

Well said. They should sneak in like a real country.

[hrothgar]

paulg, on 2013-September-25, 10:15, said:

[/size]
Well said. They should sneak in like a real country.

I'm not in a good position to control whether or not the NSA has hacked my machine.
(I believe that) I am in a better position to stop the Chinese government.

[gnasher]

I expect that for most people who want to watch vugraph it would be awful, for several years at least. BBO may not be perfect, but I think it would take a long time to get OurGame's software to the same level of usability, usable by English speakers, and with the same number and quality of willing operators and commentators.

If it did happen, what would the WBF do with the money? I can think of several good ways to spend it:
- Reduce the money that the WBF demands from host nations, thereby making more venues available for world championships.
- Reduce the entry fees, especially for the events that are open to all.
- Increase the length of the two Transnational Swiss Teams events.
- Subsidise accommodation for representative teams.

But in reality I doubt if much of the money would be spent on anything useful. Instead, more officials would be invited to attend World Championships, for longer, and in nicer hotels.

[dustinst22]

I find it interesting that a "considerable amount of money" is being offered.

I don't see the financial opportunity for Our Game, very strange. Bridge Vugraph is still very niche in the scheme of things, and there isn't that much opportunity to monetize. Ad revenue would be extremely small.

Perhaps they plan to charge a fee to view.

[uday]

We (BBO) don't know much more than this at the moment.

We're going to be speaking with someone from the WBF after the Bali event (ie, next week)

Once we do that, we'll know more, and we'll report back.

U

[TylerE]

dustinst22, on 2013-September-25, 11:45, said:

I don't see the financial opportunity for Our Game, very strange.

For some reason South East Asia has a cultural thing for mind sport games, often in ways that are not financially sound. It's like a prestige thing. Sort of like how companies there will sponsor high $ bridge/chess/go/backgammon tournies, without any real financial motivation.

[ahydra]

- Monopolies are never a good thing.
- Regular high-profile events (e.g. Spingold) are already used to setting up and running BBO broadcasts. They know how to cope when things break down. Switching the vugraph provider means more training/etc and therefore reduced quality broadcasts, at least for the first 2-3 years.
- BBO commentators are well-loved and respected - will we lose their excellent commentary?
- Will we lose voice commentary?
- I doubt they'd offer, at least for quite a while, the same range of languages that BBO does. I mean, do OurGame even have software in English yet?
- etc, etc.

There are few details in the linked article so it's hard to know if there are any "pro" points - there might well be. But I'm sincerely hoping the WBF's eyes don't simply light up with dollar signs.

ahydra

[Aberlour10]

ahydra, on 2013-September-26, 10:46, said:

There are few details in the linked article so it's hard to know if there are any "pro" points - there might well be. But I'm sincerely hoping the WBF's eyes don't simply light up with dollar signs.

ahydra

Quote

Mr. Rona: "A lot of aspects need to be taken into consideration. It is really
time for a new mindset. In big sports such as soccer it is not unusual that
exclusive broadcasting rights are sold to third parties. We are thinking of
creating a situation where broadcasting companies can bid to obtain rights."

Translating this statement from the diplomatic to the common language: Damn, we will take this money for sure, but for the sake of form we will do so if it takes place by fair conditions.

[1eyedjack]

ahydra, on 2013-September-26, 10:46, said:

- Monopolies are never a good thing.

Just to be sure that I understand this ...
Currently BBO have the monopoly.
That is a bad thing, right?

[ArtK78]

Can one be said to have a monopoly when there is no compensation for the service provided?

[paulg]

1eyedjack, on 2013-September-26, 13:20, said:

Just to be sure that I understand this ...
Currently BBO have the monopoly.
That is a bad thing, right?

I think you need to read the article ... "At the Bali WC two internet companies broadcast online Vugraph: BBO and Our Game. "

At other championships there have been other companies providing a vugraph service too.

However one might question whether the market is large enough for multiple vugraph presenters. We might all love it on the forums but how many of the few thousand that watch would consider paying for it.

[TylerE]

This is not a monopoly situation. Individual companies are free to make contracts and business deals.

[mr1303]

If the WBF start charging to broadcast vugraph coverage, presumably BBO and others will have to start charging for the coverage? That being the case, the number of viewers will decrease substantially, which will only hurt the game of bridge.

[the saint]

This strikes me as being somewhat short sighted. Let's be serious here - Bridge is facing an age-related time bomb. Players numbers are declining - certainly in the West and as people die they aren't being replenished. VG is one high profile way of promoting the game so the aim should surely be to expose as many people as possible to it rather than restrict the potential audience. PPV will do that and in doing so will reduce the viewer base. Now this may mean that the WBF gets a short term income boost, but longer term?

If they want to make cash then perhaps sell advertising, but to kill your audience is to kill the value of the product.

[MolvaM]

Here is a copy of my post at the Bridgewinners website:

I think the commentator issue will be the least of our problems.

Has anyone checked the Our Game website? http://www.ourgame.com/ It is so chinese that you cannot even find the button to click in order to switch to the english version. The BBO website, and the downloadable software, and the mobile app, on the other hand, are so user friendly that even a newcomer will easily be able to figure out how to watch a vugraf show or to play bridge.

Moreover, BBO has years of experience broadcasting vugraph shows to the world. Everyone knows how to operate the software, everyone is happy with the completely free service and everyone is only focused to the enjoyment of watching the world champions perform in their living rooms.

On the other hand, we (except the chinese) do not know how Ourgame will perform. In my opinion Ourgame needs to broadcast vugraf shows for at least 5 years even to be eligible for consideration. Then, we can build our experience and opinion regarding what to expect if Ourgame will be granted the rights to broadcast.

Last but not least, I think it would be extremely unfair for the WBF to suddenly give the broadcasting rights to a third party just because they come up with some money. BBO has been servicing the world bridge (and of course the WBF) by broadcasting vugraf shows free of charge for many years now. So BBO is fully entitled to a positive discrimination.

Having said all that, my personal opinion is that, *IF* it finally comes to the point that BBO will be forced to pay the WBF to be able to continue broadcasting the vugraf shows, we (the BBO members) must support BBO by either contributing donations to finance the WBF payments, or, more rationally, BBO must implement a reasonable membership fee (I suggest 10$ per year per nickname) to finance the enterprise.

This will also help in the solution of the frequent problems arising due to some members having tens (even hundreds) of nicknames, and abuse the anonymity to behave inappropriately (harrassment, rude conduct, etc) online.

[TylerE]

I think the day BBO goes to a paid membership the usage would vastly decrease. Wether this is a good or bad thing I'm not entirely sure.

[uday]

We're going to meet (over the phone) with someone from the WBF soon enough, now that Bali is behind us, and we'll see what's what.

BBO has always said something like "Vugraph will be free as long as we can afford it" and we've stuck to that over the last decade. It is premature to worry about that changing, at least just yet. Nothing that has happened makes me think that will change.

If the WBF chooses to stop broadcasting, or to broadcast exclusively through some other site for either money or love, I'll be disappointed, but it isn't like anyone is asking me what I think, yet.

I'll update us all once I know more.

祝你今天愉快

U

[hrothgar]

Copy of my post on Bridge Winners

Quote

Few quick observations

• I consider Our Game’s offer to be highly problematic. The combination of poor service for non-English speakers, requests for exclusivity, and highly questionable software isn’t a recipe for success. If the WBF accept’s Our Game’s offer, it will represent a major setback for Vugraph.

• WBF events are few and far between. The WBF is the wrong organization to be making decisions with respect to broadcasting Vugraph. If at all possible, the WBF needs to be cut out of the loop. The best way to do so is to develop an open standard for broadcasting Vugraph’s and demonstrate how thing’s “should” be done.

• I continue to believe that major championships will use more and more electronics. I think that migrating to an electronic playing environment is the eventual end game. There are too many advantages wrt security, record keeping, and broadcasting to keep with the pasteboards.

In an ideal world, I’d like to see the development of a standardized interface for broadcasting events. Anyone who wants should be able to connect into the raw feed. Individual software providers can compete on the quality of the user interfaces for watching said broadcasts. Commentators (or groups of commentators) can compete based on the quality of their observations.