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On 1: if the raise promises 4 card support, N just bids it. 10 card fits, when the 6 card holding is strong and has a side singleton, play very well: definitely better than say 6322.
On 2, this sort of sequence is rarely discussed. However, it is standard to play that, without interference, a 3m bid by the stayman responder is forcing. If that treatment is in use, and it is standard so should be in use, then logic suggests that S act as if that's what responder is doing. In turn that means bidding 3N.
If, as some inexperienced players do, the partnership uses stayman then minor as the way to get out in the minor, then N has misevaluated his hand and S has done nothing wrong. This is non-standard and I wouldn't assume it to be the scenario but I have seen it played that way.
you be the judge two auctions
#21
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Posted 2013-August-26, 16:17
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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Posted 2013-August-27, 06:13
mikeh, on 2013-August-26, 16:17, said:
On 1: if the raise promises 4 card support, N just bids it. 10 card fits, when the 6 card holding is strong and has a side singleton, play very well: definitely better than say 6322.
I'm not sure how strong I want the 6 card suit to be. Once we're in a 10 card fit, cards like the Q and J of trump are frequently wasted and the HCPs would be better were they located elsewhere.
#23
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Posted 2013-August-27, 06:44
This is a slight shock to me that on hand #1 some feel the N hand is not game going, even facing 3 card support you want to be in game at imps. Here the opening hand is a bare bones minimum and game is very good.
The methods given for hand #2 are strange and for S to bid is difficult with only 2C, so I do not feel S took a poor action. N however should man up and treat the hand game going, 3N is not without chances, could easily go down with 4-1 C onside even.
The methods given for hand #2 are strange and for S to bid is difficult with only 2C, so I do not feel S took a poor action. N however should man up and treat the hand game going, 3N is not without chances, could easily go down with 4-1 C onside even.
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Posted 2013-August-27, 08:52
mcphee, on 2013-August-27, 06:44, said:
This is a slight shock to me that on hand #1 some feel the N hand is not game going, even facing 3 card support you want to be in game at imps. Here the opening hand is a bare bones minimum and game is very good.
The methods given for hand #2 are strange and for S to bid is difficult with only 2C, so I do not feel S took a poor action. N however should man up and treat the hand game going, 3N is not without chances, could easily go down with 4-1 C onside even.
The methods given for hand #2 are strange and for S to bid is difficult with only 2C, so I do not feel S took a poor action. N however should man up and treat the hand game going, 3N is not without chances, could easily go down with 4-1 C onside even.
But AK, A and a ruffing value is great opposite a long suit. This is a particularly well fitting minimum. I agree that bidding game is fine. But within the context of light openers, 3 card raises and liberal use of return game tries, I think inviting is fine too and that it's still reachable thereafter.
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Posted 2013-August-27, 12:02
yaohung, on 2013-August-24, 20:15, said:
4 ways xfer apply, 3♣ is an invitation but not forcing
- What's the reasonable contract for this hand?
- Who should take the blame (percentage) if any error?
- Your suggestion? Thank you
- South has a good minimum but North has the values for 4♠.
- North is worth a try. With a supermax and a sure ♦ stop, South should bid 3N.
- Why isn't this in the world-class forum?
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Posted 2013-August-28, 00:38
#1- N is out of his mind by not bidding 4♠ and i would not even bother to argue with anyone who suggests that S could have taken any other action except than 3♠, because they will keep on replying "but what if this and what if that and...bla bla" It is IMPS ffs, and you are bidding game , not a freaking grandslam, with 10 cards fit and a beatiful hand with no wasted values and you don't want your opponents to know that you are about to bid a borderline game and give them more road maps than they need.
N will invite and the guy who opened with 11 hcp will re invite....what else ? Wanna ask custom made low level keycards and kings too before bidding a game at imps ? Jesus !
If there is a thread to be split this is it, and hand #1 goes to B/N and hand #2 goes to I/A
N will invite and the guy who opened with 11 hcp will re invite....what else ? Wanna ask custom made low level keycards and kings too before bidding a game at imps ? Jesus !
If there is a thread to be split this is it, and hand #1 goes to B/N and hand #2 goes to I/A
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2013-August-28, 00:42
I just checked the hand #2. I was wrong in my previous reply, it should be in B/N section as well.
This is what happens when Phil Clayton takes break from forums
This is what happens when Phil Clayton takes break from forums
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
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Posted 2013-August-28, 07:11
MrAce, on 2013-August-28, 00:38, said:
#1- N is out of his mind by not bidding 4♠ and i would not even bother to argue with anyone who suggests that S could have taken any other action except than 3♠, because they will keep on replying "but what if this and what if that and...bla bla" It is IMPS ffs, and you are bidding game , not a freaking grandslam, with 10 cards fit and a beatiful hand with no wasted values and you don't want your opponents to know that you are about to bid a borderline game and give them more road maps than they need.
N will invite and the guy who opened with 11 hcp will re invite....what else ? Wanna ask custom made low level keycards and kings too before bidding a game at imps ? Jesus !
If there is a thread to be split this is it, and hand #1 goes to B/N and hand #2 goes to I/A
N will invite and the guy who opened with 11 hcp will re invite....what else ? Wanna ask custom made low level keycards and kings too before bidding a game at imps ? Jesus !
If there is a thread to be split this is it, and hand #1 goes to B/N and hand #2 goes to I/A
The scoring system was not actually indicated in the question. Even if it was imps, this is just a white game, the risk/reward is similar to matchpoints.
The Q of spades is frequently a wasted value in a ten card fit. North is the one with shape so of course the rest of his cards aren't wasted. The reason that this works is because south has nothing wasted, rather than having one of the many hands where they take the first 4 tricks.
If someone described north as holding a "9 count" they'd know nothing about the game. But the guy with AK, A and a ruffing value? Well he just has "an 11 count".
4♠ is a very good contract...