[eagles123]

Hi guys,

IMPS we are white they are red. pass pass your turn

AK742
543
42
954


I know there's not a 6th spade but is this worth a 2♠ opening or not?

Thanks,

Eagles

[Lord Molyb]

it is close but I'll pass since I'm practically flat with no spade spots

[helene_t]

you will get some votes for 1♠ here but my choice would be 2♠.

[gwnn]

I don't mind a 5-card suit in this position but this is 5332 and no spots at all. So 1S for me.

[Winstonm]

What do you mean - 3rd seat white vs red you have an EXTRA spade already.

[eagles123]

Winstonm, on 2013-June-08, 16:09, said:

What do you mean - 3rd seat white vs red you have an EXTRA spade already.

sorry I don't understand?

[nige1]

eagles123, on 2013-June-08, 15:28, said:

Hi guys, IMPS we are white they are red. pass pass your turn
♠ A K 7 4 2 ♥ 5 4 3 ♦ 4 2 ♣ 9 5 4
I know there's not a 6th spade but is this worth a 2♠ opening or not? Thanks,

IMO 2♠ = 10, 1♠ (where legal) = 9, Pass = 7, Other = 5.

[Antrax]

eagles123, on 2013-June-08, 16:10, said:

sorry I don't understand?

Basically what Winstonm is saying is that you have two reasons for "wanting" to preempt more than usual: you are at favourable vulnerability, and you are in third seat. His comment is a joke about people who take this too far and would preempt on a four-card suit in that situation.

[wank]

akxxx is not a very good holding for this sort of thing. the problem is you don't want partner to take you seriously and actually raise to 4 and you might even get slaughtered at a low level.

you will often have 2 defensive tricks with the AK, you have millions of losers, including potentially slow losers in your suit. basically, your offense to defense ration is bad. something like kqt9x is a much better 3rd in hand joke pre-empt.

1S is better imo - you still get the spade lead, you're modestly pre-empting them, and your defensive potential is more inline to what p would expect.

[Vampyr]

The OP seems to be in the EBU, where a 1♠ opening is not legal. (Well, it is a bit murky, because apparently you are not allowed to have an agreement to do it, but you are allowed to do it as long as your partner would never consider opening it).

[plum_tree]

From one novice to another I can add this:
Occasionally you get away with a weak 2 in this situation. Occasionally is losing bridge even if 1 out of every 3 such bids turns out to be favourable. Stick to the guidelines until you can see that the hand posted is trash. 5521, 5431 or 5422 would be a lot better distribution. But then you want that ♠AK to be backed up with 10s and 9s to consider opening this in third seat. Stick to the guidelines and PASS!

[Winstonm]

Antrax, on 2013-June-08, 21:11, said:

Basically what Winstonm is saying is that you have two reasons for "wanting" to preempt more than usual: you are at favourable vulnerability, and you are in third seat. His comment is a joke about people who take this too far and would preempt on a four-card suit in that situation.

Thanks for answering for me - I didn't see that reply.

Let me clarify about why one would want to preempt. Basically, only two things are getting ready to happen. #1: LHO has a weakish hand and is getting ready to pass out this deal or open and pass, making the hand at best a partscore deal. If I buy the hand at 2S, I can steal a partscore or go down undoubled a modest amount. Few imps won or lost either way.

#2: LHO is getting ready to open a real hand. By bidding 2S, I take away 2 levels of space. How much fun is it when we have to describe our hands starting at the 3-level? There are only 8 spades among the other three hands, so the average holding would be 2 2/3, so odds are the opponents do not hold a stack and can punish me at 2S doubled when they have no higher scoring game.

The last thing, because of this unique situation, white vs red after 2 passes, partner cannot get too crazy in support, knowing that in this situation the idea of "normal" preempt has quite a huge latitude.

[eagles123]

thanks all for replies, realised it was a rubbish hand just wondered if it was worth pre-empting or not

Eagles123

[Zelandakh]

I don't think there is a right answer to this. It is a matter of style/agreement and the qualities of your opponents matter too. I personally do open 2♠ on some hands of this nature quite often providing I have a partner who can take a joke. That said, as wank points out this hand is not the most promising for this. If the opponents are "bid one more" types then 2♠ has more going for it. In fact, I think I prefer the 2♠ opening at Love All to Green. But the hand is not ideal for 1♠ either. Reverse the red suits and I like 1♠ a lot more, since we can pass any response with a guaranteed 7+ card fit. There is also nothing wrong with passing initially and then coming in on the next round with a spade overcall if this still seems like a good idea.

[CamHenry]

If I need a swing, I'm opening 2♠ - it gets the right lead, and takes up room. If the match is even, or we're leading, I'm passing: there's no point provoking something like 2S-3N-X-XX making 11 tricks.

[ggwhiz]

You can do whatever you like in this seat and colors depending on your mood and pards sense of humor.

In the quarter finals of the USA2 match Hampson opened 1♠ in 3rd on these colors on Txx in a 4 triple 3 with a Jack. Dbl, 2nt (limit raise) from pard and he ended up in 3♠ whacked -1400.

Fred Gitleman duplicated the whole thing at the other table for a push.

I tend to open 1♠ on this with our 2-way drury and reverse Bergen for safety valves and would do so with 1 less spade, especially against Winston since he's probably already tried to do me in similarly.

[neilkaz]

CamHenry, on 2013-June-11, 08:22, said:

If I need a swing, I'm opening 2♠ - it gets the right lead, and takes up room. If the match is even, or we're leading, I'm passing: there's no point provoking something like 2S-3N-X-XX making 11 tricks.

I know this is N/B so I have to be nice, so I'll nicely ask how often your passed partner doubles the opp's 3NT overcall after you open with a weak 2 white/red in 3rd seat? In the event that this does happen, how unhappy are you to be able to provide 2 sure tricks to the defense?