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looking for expert consensous major straigh flush versus minimum straigh flush

#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-February-03, 18:16

Imagine that you are playing a JEC match with an expert forum partner of your choice, you have your system notes, but obviously you didn't cover this situation, here is the hand:

J
KQJ109876
42
J6


nobody vul, RHO deals and opens 1, std 5 card major. This hand in question was MPs, but you can think it is IMPs if you want.
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#2 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2013-February-03, 18:27

gonzalo is screwing with the guardians.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#3 User is offline   kayin801 

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Posted 2013-February-03, 23:59

Pass. I have no agreement with any partner as to what 4 would be here. 2 or 3 wouldn't show something close to this hand.
I once yelled at my partner for discarding the 'wrong' card when he was subjected to a squeeze that I allowed by giving the wrong count with too high a card. Now he's allowed to pitch aces when the opponents have the king in the dummy. At trick 2. When he could have followed suit. And blame me.

East4Evil sohcahtoa 4ever!!!!!1
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#4 User is offline   frank0 

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Posted 2013-February-04, 00:44

pass
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#5 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2013-February-04, 00:49

It seems like I could probably beat 1H so I'd double it.
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#6 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-February-04, 04:31

Let's see, 2 would be Michaels; 3 asks for a stopper; 4 shows 6 spades and a minor. What alternatives are you thinking of Fluffy? I think the Expert consensus on this hand is the same as the B/I one, at least on the first round.
(-: Zel :-)
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#7 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-February-04, 06:04

1 - I hope partner splinters.
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#8 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2013-February-04, 06:32

View PostPhilKing, on 2013-February-04, 06:04, said:

1 - I hope partner splinters.

But what if one of the opponents comes up with a Fredin double?

;)

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
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#9 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2013-February-04, 06:41

Wouldn't this be handled by any weasel by looking at LHO
and asking "Does 1H REALLY show hearts?" "How many can he have?"
Or even non-weasel taken aback showing "I have hearts" = the same thing?
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 05:12

Several pairs of various levels solved this by bidding 4, it had to work since partner had AK109xxxx himself. Even then they couldn't forbid partner from bidding 4 and some ended up pretty high.

I found it outrageus that I couldn't ever bid my KQJ109876 suit being on second position, becuase the only ever meaning I have ever though about 1-4 is more or less what Zel said.

Specially because my partner on a 30 board set should had a total of five times 8 card suits. (just that in the 4 boards of the set we missed 3 of them were lost).

One of them makes me sick and makes a strong argument against human intelligence.

Partner opens 1 and you have:

K8xxx
-
AQ10xxxxx
-

look at the table records of board 5 and cry:

http://www.aebridge....0by%20table.pdf

yes, 6 is above average :(
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#11 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 06:04

I am impressed with the North player (Castellsague?) who brought in 6+1. I guess they got to a few similar contracts they could not rescue though since they ended on 45%. I bet Ken has a way of bidding Exclusion Blackwood with 2 voids. Did East not stick in a 3 overcall at your table?
(-: Zel :-)
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#12 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 06:15

I missed the hand, for being table 4, but from what I ahve gathered most Easts overcalled 2 wich makes me sick as well. Comentating hands with local experts, they also though AJ9xA10xxxJ10xx was an obvious 2 overcall over 1 and though it was so unlucky to go -300 against nothing in 3.

BTW: Castellsague are Bocchi's wife and father in law, so they might have learned some beatuful tricks :P

And about the 2 void exclusion blackwood... well you don't need modern conventions, grand slam force dates from previous century and I think not preciselly the end of it.
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#13 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 07:04

View PostFluffy, on 2013-February-05, 06:15, said:

And about the 2 void exclusion blackwood... well you don't need modern conventions, grand slam force dates from previous century and I think not preciselly the end of it.

GSF dates from Culbertson, so sometime in the 1930s. It would be something of a possibility if partner makes a finger (or foot tapping) signal that they have the K.
(-: Zel :-)
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 07:27

are you really concerned about K zel? seriously? He has 1.66 average damond a priory, but that is before taking into acount his spade length that gives him around 4.3 less vacant spaces than the opps. And he even has more HCP than average so even in the worst case he is favourite to hold the king.

EDITED: 1.66 a priori
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#15 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 07:35

View PostFluffy, on 2013-February-05, 07:27, said:

are you really concerned about K zel? seriously? He has 1.33 average damond a priory, and taking into acount his spade length around 4.3 less vacant spaces for them than the opps. And he even has more HCP than average so even in the worst case he is favourite to hold the king.

Well there is a difference between favourite and assured. If you could find out that partner had precisely xx without an honour, would you still want to be in 7? Obviously it depends what methods we have available and how high they bid. Is that your recommended auction (1 - (3) - 5NT - (P); 7)?
(-: Zel :-)
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#16 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 08:11

When I saw the hand my first reaction was to blast 7 directly without GSF. If I don't have GSF, or I don't have the methods to tell appart A from Q I would blast 7, only just in case maybe I would use a form of exclusion blackwood, so that if I hit the suit where partner lacks the ace, and he answers zero, I will know he doens't have A, but other than that, staying out of 7 is overthinking.

7 is not foolproof, but you shouldn't worry about info you cannot access.


Not so long ago, I had a similar scenario, I opened 2, and got a 2 positive response from partner, I found no other bid than 7 remotelly appealing. I was playing with an intermediate with very few agreeements, maybe with a serious partner I would move around (probably not) I don't remember if I had AKQxx or AKJxxx but the hand looked like:

AQx
Ax
AKJxxx
AJ

Only 2/10 tables found the grand slam, and some players them came to me to seek advice about how to bid it... well... just bid it!



Adding more:

In 2008 Bejing I missed a silly grand, I had the following hand:

x
AQ109xx
Axx
Qxx

The bidding went:

1-(2)-double (damned NFB)-(5)
6- all pass

I tanked forever to think that my A was useless (it was) and my Q was useless (it was) and my singleton spade was of no use (it was), but it never mattered, partner had 6 solid-6 KJ, stiff club ace. Or somethng like that, I made all the right asumptions to reach the wrong conclusion, including going to grand at IMPs needing to be foolproof.
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#17 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 09:01

Hi,

Pass.

I once bid 4H with a similar hand, partner did not get, after the tournament, I was
able ??? to convince him, that absent agreement, 4H had to be natural.
But I may have just talked him to death, and he may wanted have it get passed by.

For that matter, I got a similar situation wrong, as partner tried a similar ploy, but
I had the chance of passing the buck to him back.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#18 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2013-February-05, 09:05

View PostFluffy, on 2013-February-05, 05:12, said:


K8xxx
-
AQ10xxxxx
-



May as well respond 2 (or bid 3 if East overcalls). I plan to bid hearts at some stage as well. The big money on this hand was to get doubled in 7 - I intend to redouble.

At least Ken will agree.
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