[RunemPard]

Hello,

Just a random thread regarding treatments after opponents double a multi opening. I am mostly interested in a method against players playing X as a simple take-out(typically a little stronger) since a minority at our club use defenses to multi openings. What do you tend to play for...

PASS
XX
2♥

What about against some other common multi defenses where X shows something else?

Our multi is typically a lower limit weak 2, a strong minor(about 16-20) with 3 of the top 4 honors or AKT, or a 20-21 balanced hand.

Thanks in advance,

Don

[FrancesHinden]

I'm not sure what you mean by double as 'take-out' - takeout of what?
Anyway, we play basically the same whatever the double means (because often opponents don't know what it means).
This is in the context of 2D being a 'bad' weak two, often a five card suit.

Pass = long diamonds, suggestion to play there
Redouble = I want to play in my own suit, please bid step 1
2H/2S = pass or correct

[We used to play these last two the other way round - redouble = "please bid your suit" and bidding of a suit natural]

[ArtK78]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-January-03, 15:13, said:

I'm not sure what you mean by double as 'take-out' - takeout of what?

I wonder the same thing everytime I open 1NT and LHO doubles, and I ask what it means and they tell me "takeout."

[inquiry]

RunemPard, on 2013-January-03, 15:00, said:

Hello,

Just a random thread regarding treatments after opponents double a multi opening. I am mostly interested in a method against players playing X as a simple take-out(typically a little stronger) since a minority at our club use defenses to multi openings. What do you tend to play for...

PASS
XX
2♥

What about against some other common multi defenses where X shows something else?

Our multi is typically a lower limit weak 2, a strong minor(about 16-20) with 3 of the top 4 honors or AKT, or a 20-21 balanced hand.

Thanks in advance,

Don

Favorite defense to multi 2♦ is named multi-versus-multi.

Basically, you DOUBLE 2♦ to show one of three specific hand types

• An opening bid in hearts (five+ card and opening strength)
• An opening bid in spades
• 19 - poor 22 point balanced hand
• 19+ three suited hand (note those penalty options are still open!)

This makes

2♥ a strong notrump overcall,
2♠ - opening hand with clubs
2nt - opening hand with diamonds
3♣/3♦ - weak bids with suit bid


There is a reasonable follow up structure, including passing 2♥ overcall when weak with hearts.... etc... look up Chris Ryall's full write up at his multi0versus-multi webpage

[RunemPard]

I don't understand it much either...but that is what everyone puts on their card. I put take-out since praying you hit my suit just doesn't sound as good I guess. A better term would be "some values" with 3 suits maybe...

[mgoetze]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-January-03, 15:13, said:

[We used to play these last two the other way round - redouble = "please bid your suit" and bidding of a suit natural]

And that is what I would consider to be "expert standard" (quite regardless of what their double meant).

[Cascade]

FrancesHinden, on 2013-January-03, 15:13, said:

I'm not sure what you mean by double as 'take-out' - takeout of what?
Anyway, we play basically the same whatever the double means (because often opponents don't know what it means).
This is in the context of 2D being a 'bad' weak two, often a five card suit.

Pass = long diamonds, suggestion to play there
Redouble = I want to play in my own suit, please bid step 1
2H/2S = pass or correct

[We used to play these last two the other way round - redouble = "please bid your suit" and bidding of a suit natural]

I am curious, I am sure you have a reason for the change. Will you share?

[Zelandakh]

I have played the way Frances does and like it. One (small) advantage is that you arrive in 3♥ faster if Opener has hearts and Responder cannot commit to 3♠. Another alternative, albeit one that gives up on playing in 2 of Responder's major is:

P = offer to play
XX = relay, Opener shows their major AND strength
2M = P/C
2N = puppet to 3♣

Overall, I doubt it makes a big overall difference how the responses are set up providing they are logical. It is just important to have actually agreed something. Many new Multi partnerships forget to talk about these things and end up in a mess.

[helene_t]

I think Frances' methods are an improvement over standard methods (where XX="bid your suit")

When opener has hearts, we want to finish in 2♥ as soon as possible, giving opps as few bites of the cherry as possible. The disadvantage is that we give opps more bites of the cherry when responder prefers his own long suit, but that happens less often.

[FrancesHinden]

Cascade, on 2013-January-03, 19:05, said:

I am curious, I am sure you have a reason for the change. Will you share?

Jallerton may be able to give some complicated technical reason, but in fact it was mainly to make it consistent with some other auctions. e.g.
1NT 2C (hearts + another) dbl we play
redble = I've got my own suit and suits = poc
(and we need to play them this way round because clubs might be partner's second suit, so you need to play pass as I want to play here opposite clubs)

[the_clown]

Pass - to play.
XX - bid your major.
2♥ - natural

[glen]

In theory it is easier for the opponents to act after:
2♦-X-2M to play (since the 6-6+ fit is unlikely, opener usually has the unbid major)
2♦-X-XX(asks major)-P-2M (now opener's major is known and both opponents get to bid again)

than:
2♦-X-2M (p/c) (now direct bidder has to act not knowing opener's major)
2♦-X-XX(forces 2♥)-P-2♥ (now doubler can act, but does not know responder's suit yet)