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what are these bids?

#1 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2012-December-18, 18:39

1.


2.


3.





4.

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#2 User is offline   gszes 

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Posted 2012-December-18, 21:17

A good rule of thumb is to treat all bids as natural unless it is totally unreasonable
to do so. Take into account your system and remember what p does NOT do is just
as important as what they do.
1. To play x x x KQxxxxxxxx (u could have started with a game forcing spade raise)
2. To play KQJxxxxx x xx xx (u could have started with a game forcing heart raise)
3. KQJTx x x KQJTxx not much stronger some small leeway on suit quality
(no other decent way to show this hand)
4. exclusion agreeing to spades. It seems like nonsense to try and make
clubs the final contract when spades are agreed on. If you are worried about
p having raised u with only 3 spades temporize and find out
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#3 User is offline   Lord Molyb 

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Posted 2012-December-18, 21:37

If I played exclusion I would treat all of them as exclusion.
Become yourself.
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#4 User is online   awm 

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Posted 2012-December-18, 22:34

For what it's worth, Sam and my agreement is:

1. Exclusion.
2. To play.
3. RKC, but we would rarely bid this way rather than 3.
4. Exclusion.
Adam W. Meyerson
a.k.a. Appeal Without Merit
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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-December-19, 08:35

The traditional meaning of 1 is a weak hand with long clubs. A common modern meaning is XRKCB, asking for key cards excluding the A with spades as trumps.

The traditional meaning of 2 is a weak hand with long spades. That is probably still the majority choice although XRKCB could also be agreed.

4 in 3 does not really have a traditional meaning that I can think of. The oldest sensible one I can think of is a void splinter. Naturally, that means that XRKCB is once again an option. If you play Kickback with your partner then this should be simple RKCB. You should probably mention whether the 2 response was game-forcing or not too. That might affect whether a 3 raise is available or not with a strong hand.

Hand 4 is an interesting one. The (very) traditional meaning is probably that you psyched the 1 response, a very common thing in the earlier bidding systems. The majority of BBFers will also play this one as XRKCB but not everyone allows Exclusion to be bid in partner's suit. If it is not XRKXB and not a psyche control (illegal these days) then it is tough to come up with a decent meaning; perhaps a weak 4117 hand? No idea.
(-: Zel :-)
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#6 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2012-December-19, 09:39

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-December-19, 08:35, said:

The traditional meaning of 2 is a weak hand with long spades. That is probably still the majority choice although XRKCB could also be agreed.

Or you could agree that 4 is Kickback (RKCB for ) and 4NT is EKCB, excluding spades (or clubs, using an 'up the line' scheme rather than a substitution scheme).
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#7 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2012-December-21, 04:13

View Postlycier, on 2012-December-18, 18:39, said:

1.

2.

3.

4.



1-5 is natural bid.
2-4 is natural bid.
3-Exclusion with as the agreed suit .
4-Exclusion
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-December-21, 05:32

1. Would play it as exclusion except I play 4 as a form of exclusion so would be natural.

2. Kickback, 4N would be exclusion in spades.

3. Kickback with exactly 3 card heart support, again 4N would be a spade void.

4. Exclusion.
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#9 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 16:56

There's a difference between what a regular partnership might agree and what you might expect from a new partner.
For the latter:

1. Natural
2. Very definitely natural, no second choice
3. A spade void, agreeing hearts. No particular reason to assume it's asking for aces unless that's what you have agreed.
4. Natural, but the auction doesn't really exist (particularly if partner might still not have genuine clubs)
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#10 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2012-December-24, 17:08

Hi,

undiscussed, I never would make those bids.

#1 splinter, void
#2 splinter
#3 splinter
#4 no splinter in partners suit, hence natural to play, ... but I would always bid 4C

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#11 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-December-27, 14:06

Not being able to jump to 4s naturally over 1h seems nuts to me.
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