[dickiegera]

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Playing Lebenshol is 3♥ forcing or only highly invitational?

If forcing how does one make an highly invitational 3♥ bid?
Is 5 Hearts KJ985 and 8 points enough?

Thank you

[Vampyr]

dickiegera, on 2012-June-10, 11:56, said:

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Playing Lebenshol is 3♥ forcing or only highly invitational?

If forcing how does one make an highly invitational 3♥ bid?
Is 5 Hearts KJ985 and 8 points enough?

Thank you

Normally 3♥ is played as forcing. Forcing bids here are pretty hard to do without, so you have to manage without "highly invitational" bids.

[mgoetze]

dickiegera, on 2012-June-10, 11:56, said:

Playing Lebenshol is 3♥ forcing or only highly invitational?

Forcing.

Quote

If forcing how does one make an highly invitational 3♥ bid?

Switch to Transfer Lebensohl.

Quote

Is 5 Hearts KJ985 and 8 points enough?

Sometimes, but not with this hand.

[Mbodell]

dickiegera, on 2012-June-10, 11:56, said:

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Playing Lebenshol is 3♥ forcing or only highly invitational?

If forcing how does one make an highly invitational 3♥ bid?
Is 5 Hearts KJ985 and 8 points enough?

Thank you

Standard Leb gives you signoff and forcing when your suit is below there suit. Your hand is on the border, and I think I might force with it given good trump spots and a worthless doubleton in their suit.

[ggwhiz]

Interference bidding often takes away one of your options bidding room wise as happens here. The one to lose is invitational, just take a stand one way or the other.

[gszes]

3h is forcing in standard leb--I do not view your hand as much
better than barely inviational. those quacks will practically
guarantee the opps will get in a couple of times and they both
know what suit to lead. I would x here--I play this as a hand with
at least 8-9 power(and many stronger hands) and no clear direction
(since we cannot bid 2n).


That is what i would choose for this hand. If p hates 2n or 3n it
is not too late to introduce our 5 card heart suit and if p passes
we wont be too unhappy either with our 2 spades.

[jillybean]

I play negative doubles at the 2 and 3 level here so this is a clear double for me.
My next bid could be much more difficult.

[aguahombre]

jillybean, on 2012-June-10, 22:06, said:

I play negative doubles at the 2 and 3 level here so this is a clear double for me.
My next bid could be much more difficult.

As long as your partner understands your terminology, I guess you could call in a negative double. A takeout double when 3 suits are involved is not usually referred to as a negative double, however. With the given hand, I don't think I would want to use a takeoutish double because it isn't prepared for anything your partner does except 3H.

As to whether to bid 3H forcing or leben, I would choose 3H which would allow us to go down in a different strain if pard only has two of them

[jillybean]

aguahombre, on 2012-June-10, 22:56, said:

As long as your partner understands your terminology, I guess you could call in a negative double. A takeout double when 3 suits are involved is not usually referred to as a negative double, however. With the given hand, I don't think I would want to use a takeoutish double because it isn't prepared for anything your partner does except 3H.

As to whether to bid 3H forcing or leben, I would choose 3H which would allow us to go down in a different strain if pard only has two of them

Which 3 suits are involved?

[aguahombre]

jillybean, on 2012-June-10, 23:00, said:

Which 3 suits are involved?

The other 3 besides spades, I would guess. Pard did overcall 1NT.

[Vampyr]

jillybean, on 2012-June-10, 23:00, said:

Which 3 suits are involved?

Hmmm... They have bid one; there are four total. A person could potentially work this out on her own.

[han]

I disagree with mgoetze about the hand evaluation, this hand is plenty for 3H, especially when there is no invitational alternative. I do agree with him regarding transfer lebensohl, it offends me to let them lead spades through partner.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with Jillybean's preference for the negative double. If partner passes it's good, and if partner bids you can bid 3H.

[mgoetze]

han, on 2012-June-11, 04:15, said:

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with Jillybean's preference for the negative double. If partner passes it's good, and if partner bids you can bid 3H.

Indeed this seems to be exactly the hand we've shown if it goes (1♠)-1NT-(2♠)-X; 3♣-3♥. It is a bit less clear if it goes (1♠)-1NT-(2♠)-X; 3♦-3♥ but probably still good.