[fuburules3]

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IMPS. You're playing 2/1 without too much discussion. I'm always a little lost on what are slam going actions versus just trying to find the best game. What do you bid?

In theory, partner could be 2632 and bid like this. In such cases, how do you avoid playing a bad 4-3 diamond fit?

What should 3S show here? How do you find the 5-3 (or on a different hand the 6-2) spade fit when it is there?

[mike777]

fuburules3, on 2012-February-18, 20:54, said:

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IMPS. You're playing 2/1 without too much discussion. I'm always a little lost on what are slam going actions versus just trying to find the best game. What do you bid?

In theory, partner could be 2632 and bid like this. In such cases, how do you avoid playing a bad 4-3 diamond fit?

What should 3S show here? How do you find the 5-3 (or on a different hand the 6-2) spade fit when it is there?

fwiw I would try 4c...second choice 4d


I hope pard will take 4c as cue, agree diamonds
As a passed hand I should not be introducing clubs as a real suit to play in at the 4 level at this point.

I am not going to worry pard has only 3d here.
I am not going to rebid a 5 card spade suit to the Jack with 4d to the ten.

[aguahombre]

3D commits us to game. It is partner's problem if he manufactured the 3D bid (I raise). If he now bids 4H, it is natural, to play, and I pass. If he now bids 4S instead, I will still be bidding during the drive home after the game.

[rogerclee]

These auctions can be hard, it may be comforting for you to realize that even if partner has 6 hearts and playing 3N is right, he may not pass 3N.

Anyway, we have a good hand for diamonds, and we want to play in diamonds opposite a real diamond suit, so don't overthink it, just bid 4D. Both 4M bids by partner would be natural, which is obviously not great for your slam bidding, but they are too valuable to give up in the name of having a variety of cuebids.

[whereagles]

If 3D shows 4 cards, then I'll try 5♦. I think 4 here is bit of an under/over bid (delete where appropriate, according to what you meant with 4D).

If 3D can be a 3 carder I'll bid 3♠ and leave it to pard.

[aguahombre]

whereagles, on 2012-February-19, 04:27, said:

If 3D shows 4 cards, then I'll try 5♦. I think 4 here is bit of an under/over bid (delete where appropriate, according to what you meant with 4D).

Here is what 5D should look like: JXXX - KQXXX XXXX (for example). 4D is staying out of partner's way while showing a distinct preference between the red suits for now.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

fuburules3, on 2012-February-18, 20:54, said:

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IMPS. You're playing 2/1 without too much discussion. I'm always a little lost on what are slam going actions versus just trying to find the best game. What do you bid?

3D should always be at least 4 cards. ( Use 3C! when you need an "artificial GF " ).

What was NOT bid over 1H:
.... 2C! = Rev Drury showing a limit raise w/ 3 or 4 cards ♥ .
.... 2H = mixed raise w/ 3 or 4 cards.
.... 3H = weak raise w/ 4 cards

After the 3D SJS:
.... 3H = bare minimum preference with as little as 2 cards ♥.
.... 3S = ♠ still in the picture with at least 2 of top 3 honors, 5+ cards; no interest in ♥/♦.
.... 3NT = none of the above, also no interest in ♦, but more than likely not the best spot.

For this hand that leaves:
.... 4C! = advance cue for ♦... should be 1st Rnd Ctrl.
.... 4D = weak preference w/ 4+ cards ♦
.... 5D = stronger preference and/or added length, but no outside Ctrls.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I think I'll only go 4D on this one.

[the hog]

I will bid 4D on this. I don't understand how 3D can be a 3 card suit - this looks unplayable to me.

[S2000magic]

4♦ and both natural.

[whereagles]

the hog, on 2012-February-19, 20:00, said:

I will bid 4D on this. I don't understand how 3D can be a 3 card suit - this looks unplayable to me.

It's the yankee way to 'solve' strong two hands. They loath dumping those hands into the 2C opener.

[johnu]

the hog, on 2012-February-19, 20:00, said:

I don't understand how 3D can be a 3 card suit - this looks unplayable to me.

IIRC, there was a Bridge World Master Solver's problem from several years ago where the top score went to a jump shift on a singleton ace. A 3 card suit doesn't look so bad

[fuburules3]

Thanks for the replies. This is basically what I thought.

At the table I bid 4♦ and partner responds 4♥. What do you do now? At least one poster suggested pass--is this the consensus? I can see where having a system where 3♦ guarantees four would be nice here.

[han]

johnu, on 2012-February-21, 03:57, said:

IIRC, there was a Bridge World Master Solver's problem from several years ago where the top score went to a jump shift on a singleton ace.

How many Australians were on the panel?

[ArtK78]

fuburules3, on 2012-February-22, 11:13, said:

Thanks for the replies. This is basically what I thought.

At the table I bid 4♦ and partner responds 4♥. What do you do now? At least one poster suggested pass--is this the consensus? I can see where having a system where 3♦ guarantees four would be nice here.

If partner bids 4♥ over 4♦, it means his jump shift was made on a short suit (presumably 3 cards but could be shorter in a pinch) and was based on a long, strong heart suit and a forcing to game hand.

I would pass 4♥.

What would you bid on x AKQJTxxx Axx x (Assuming you don't open these type of hands 2♣ and you don't play NAMYATS)?

[mikeh]

fuburules3, on 2012-February-22, 11:13, said:

Thanks for the replies. This is basically what I thought.

At the table I bid 4♦ and partner responds 4♥. What do you do now? At least one poster suggested pass--is this the consensus? I can see where having a system where 3♦ guarantees four would be nice here.

I agree with the 4♦ call, and upvoted roger's post.

Partner's 4♥ call doesn't deny a 4 card diamond suit: the main purpose of the bid is to show a very good 6+ card suit. x AKQJxx AQxx Kx would be one type of hand.

You should not pull 4♥ unless you feel your hand is well-suited (pun is accidental) for an 11 or 12 trick diamond contract. You don't pull from fear....you pull, if you do, from optimism.

Here, you have no grounds for optimism, so you pass.

[bluecalm]

Quote

I will bid 4D on this. I don't understand how 3D can be a 3 card suit - this looks unplayable to me.

Didn't you notice it's "unplayable system discussion" forum ?

On serious note, assuming 3D is normal, let's say 4+cards (or even 5+) I wonder if that hand isn't too strong for 4D.
If I had like: Axxxx x Jxx xxxx I would bid 4D too presumably ? I think we need to make some distinction between weak and better hands at this point.
I think 4D should be minimum hand with support and lack of good stopper in 4th suit and 4C should be club cuebid setting diamonds as trumps and decent hand. Now if this one qualifies is another matter (maybe it doesn't) but it would be interesting to arrive at some general guidelines.
Also what kind of hand bids direct 5d here ?

Quote

What would you bid on x AKQJTxxx Axx x (Assuming you don't open these type of hands 2♣ and you don't play NAMYATS)?

I mean we really need to get rid of that. This is awful terrible unplayable and confusing system which nobody very good at bridge play but "teachers" keep shoving down B/I's throats.
This philosophy of "not opening 2C if you have other choices" and then manufacturing reverses with 2 cards or jumpshifts on 3 cards is total nonsense. It's inferior, it's confusing it's harmful to people who are learning this game and try to understand it.
You have 10 tricks in hand, you open 2C how hard is that ? What kind of convulated thinking is that to open this 1H just to have a chance to jump rebid your Axx next round ? I mean what the *****.

[ArtK78]

bluecalm, on 2012-February-22, 13:26, said:

Didn't you notice it's "unplayable system discussion" forum ?

On serious note, assuming 3D is normal, let's say 4+cards (or even 5+) I wonder if that hand isn't too strong for 4D.
If I had like: Axxxx x Jxx xxxx I would bid 4D too presumably ? I think we need to make some distinction between weak and better hands at this point.
I think 4D should be minimum hand with support and lack of good stopper in 4th suit and 4C should be club cuebid setting diamonds as trumps and decent hand. Now if this one qualifies is another matter (maybe it doesn't) but it would be interesting to arrive at some general guidelines.
Also what kind of hand bids direct 5d here ?

ArtK78, on 2012-February-22, 12:56, said:

What would you bid on x AKQJTxxx Axx x (Assuming you don't open these type of hands 2♣ and you don't play NAMYATS)?

I mean we really need to get rid of that. This is awful terrible unplayable and confusing system which nobody very good at bridge play but "teachers" keep shoving down B/I's throats.
This philosophy of "not opening 2C if you have other choices" and then manufacturing reverses with 2 cards or jumpshifts on 3 cards is total nonsense. It's inferior, it's confusing it's harmful to people who are learning this game and try to understand it.
You have 10 tricks in hand, you open 2C how hard is that ? What kind of convulated thinking is that to open this 1H just to have a chance to jump rebid your Axx next round ? I mean what the *****.

Show me the 10 tricks.

If you REALLY don't like that hand (and next time, don't mince words - tell us how you really feel) how about:

-- AQJTxxxx Axx Kx

[fuburules3]

What is partner has a strong hand with a not so great heart suit, say

S: AK
H: Axxxxx
D: AKx
C: Qx

What will he bid over 4D (or will he not open 1H?)?

[ArtK78]

fuburules3, on 2012-February-22, 13:52, said:

What is partner has a strong hand with a not so great heart suit, say

S: AK
H: Axxxxx
D: AKx
C: Qx

What will he bid over 4D (or will he not open 1H?)?

I am sure some players (not me) would open 2NT. I would open 1H, but my rebid would be 2NT.

[bluecalm]

Yeah 9 tricks, sorry. The point is that you have a hand which want to bid one suited GF an there is no such bid in sayc or 2/1.

Quote

don't mince words - tell us how you really feel) how about:

I didn't. BBO filter did for me

How I feel about it:
There is something very wrong with teaching bridge. People are taught inferior illogical, hard to apply stupid system in the name of "standard" or "natural". Then they are faced with impossible problems like the hand given. Then when they come up with logical simple solution: "let's open 2C at least we are in GF auction now so we can exchange some information instead of jump rebidding 3card suits" they are told the hand "doesn't meet standards" for 2C opener.
People are taught "natural" but when:
1H- 1S
3D comes up they are told they shouldn't raise with support lightly because hey, that could be 3 cards (or 1 card...) because some 'experts' said so.