[awm]

These polls are designed to figure out why people who know how to play bridge choose not to play much (or any) duplicate bridge. Obviously the number one reason for why people don't play is "I don't know how / am not interested in learning how / don't even know what bridge is" but that's not the point here.

The first poll asks you to think about people you know, who have learned how to play bridge but don't show up much for duplicate games. Why do you think these people don't play? Feel free to pick more than one... but please try to pick choices where you feel like a lot of people you know choose not to play for that reason.

The second asks about your own duplicate playing habits. Are there things that make you less interested in playing, or have made you cut down on the number of duplicate games you play? Here I'm looking for just one choice, and feel free to answer "I play a huge amount of duplicate bridge!" if you feel like you play more than ever.

[jillybean]

Adam, could you add a health/old age and 'don't know' or N/A option to question 1. I'm not aware of people who have stopped playing duplicate for the reasons listed and I can't answer 2 without answering 1.

[gnasher]

The biggest reason that I play less face-to-face bridge than I used to is simple: BBO and its competitors. If I want to practise, I can do it from my desk.

[Hanoi5]

This is why these guys are not playing bridge:



On topic: Family and work will remain the top reasons. People learn the game, they live and before dying they return to it.

[cloa]

 gnasher, on 2011-May-24, 15:16, said:

The biggest reason that I play less face-to-face bridge than I used to is simple: BBO and its competitors. If I want to practise, I can do it from my desk.

Nothing in the question says offline or online. So playing online duplicate bridge counts.

[MrAce]

Yes, if u meant face to face by duplicate bridge its another story but if online games count i do play as much as i can find time from work and family.

But if online bridge doesnt count as duplicate then some the reasons i choose not to play "duplicate" bridge are;

-It is cheaper

-It is easier ( i can play whenever i am available instead of having to meet a scheduled time.

-Quality (most players i play with or against are much better players than club game level, some of them are national and even world champs)

-Quantity of style ( online i can play vs different style and players fron different nations all arround the world, instead of playing vs same people every time at the bridge club.

-And i dont care about the masterpoints i am missing by not playing at clubs.

[cloa]

I don't play in Japan because one, I don't speak enough Japanese although I could get around that and two, its darned expensive as they play in hotels. It might be impossible now as I work during daytime and look after my wife and home after hours. I played in Western Australia in quite a few clubs.

[MarkDean]

For me, having a kid drastically reduced the amount I play. One thing which stops me from playing more than I do is the times of sessions. During the week, I go to bed at 930-1030 and wake up at 515, so staying up to 12-1 is tough - I am too tired to play well, and it messes up my sleep pattern.

[Siegmund]

For me it's because of the schedule at the bridge club: I just moved from a town with two evening games a week to one with FIVE games a week, ALL in the afternoon (one novice game in the evenings) - so I am now averaging about 0.4 games a week, playing only on the weekends I'm not out of town. I was just stunned by that, when I moved; I thought that "everybody" played bridge at night, with just the occasional afternoon game mostly in snowbird land.

I guess arguably that's a vote for "most other players are not in my social group" - they are retired and I have a job. (But I voted "other" in the 2nd poll.)

For tournament attendance, other things (compatible partners and to some extent system regulations) are a factor. Cost too high is a specific reason to skip an NABC in favor of another type of tournament, but not in general a big factor.

[Free]

During my university years I used to play an enormous amount of bridge. Duplicate whenever possible, otherwise online until late at night/early in the morning. This changed dramatically since I started working. Now I play mostly during weekends, but even during the weekends I lack time (planning a wedding, building a house, and I still need some social contacts ofcourse - luckily I don't have kids yet). It's very hectic and I haven't played much the last few months. So for me it's clear, and I also think many young people lack time at certain moments of their lives.

Older people play less mostly because of run-ins with young guns, new fancy conventions or health issues. Also, many old people here play with only 1 partner. If one of them dies, then the other one is left alone without alternatives. Sometimes they just stop playing completely in such case.

[kenberg]

My answer to 1 would be "I have no idea".

The poll will not let me answer just the second set.

For me, it's sort of like "Why don't I read more?", "Why don't I go to the theater more?" "Why don't I go to the gym more?" It's not "Other activities that I like better" and not exactly "Lack of free time" although something in that vicinity.

Today I put in a pretty full day of work, although some things are undone. And at home, the grass needs mowing. Tonight I am going to the third in a series of genealogy lectures (Last time the guy used me as an example and brought up a picture of my mother on my uncle's boat from the 1930s. They have both been dead for almost fifty years, it was a kick.) I had to cancel participation in another event to get to the genealogy lecture. I'll probably let the grass wait for a while if I find a decent online game to play in right now. But I have to get to the grass. Yes I could hire someone. Not my style.

Axiom: When you are doing X, you are not doing Y. That's about the explanation for me. The usual complaints about system complications and rudeness don't much register with me. I have generally found that people who yap a lot about rudeness, at bridge or elsewhere, could use a few lessons themselves.

[awm]

Looking at the results here, it seems to me that:

(1) A lot of people have other work/family obligations arise, or find other leisure activities they enjoy more. There is probably not much we can do about that.

(2) Not being able to find a compatible partner seems to be a common problem. There might be things we can do about that; for example running individual games or other special games where people get a chance to play with partners they might not otherwise meet, or some sort of well-organized "partner-matching" service. Perhaps BBF can add such a thing?

(3) Run-ins with rude players or directors does turn a lot of people off bridge. More active enforcement of zero-tolerance might help, as might some training for directors in dealing with players and/or some avenue for players to complain about directors.

(4) "My favorite methods are banned" is not a huge issue, but "I don't like playing against others' methods" is an even smaller issue. It might make sense to move towards a more permissive policy in open games.

(5) BBO itself may solve some of the problems with work/family obligations and with convenient places to play, by offering an online "bridge club" that's available at all times of day and night.

[Phil]

It varies quite a bit with me, but the top ones are:


1. They're too busy with work/family obligations. Obv

2. Card fees are too high. This has never been a problem, but travel expenses are.

3. It's too hard to find a compatible partner. This is a big problem for me, especially on a local level.


I think these are reasonable excuses, but they don't apply to me (fortunately):


4. There's no convenient place to play. Living in Southern California, this is never a problem
for me.

5. They've found other leisure activities they prefer. In the early to mid-90's this was the case with me, as I got back into golf. I loved it, and bridge wasn't nearly as important. If I had an unlimited amount of funds, this well might be the case, but I think there could be room for both. However, as bad as bridge players can be, golfers can be even bigger assholes.

6. Health reasons. This will be the eventual reason I quit I'm afraid, especially since "death" wasn't an poll option.


The others are kind of nonsensical to me (but I am snide and condescending, so go figure):

7. They've had unpleasant run-ins with players. Well, no kidding. Its duplicate bridge and this is bound to happen at some point. Unfortunate but true.

8. They've had unpleasant run-ins with directors. More unfortunate than "A", but not enough reason to give it up IMO.

9. Their favorite conventions/methods are banned. Cry me a river.

10. There are too many conventions to play against/remember. I wonder if anyone chose both "C" and "D".

11. There's nothing "special" about the games. Not sure what this means. A club game can be a blast to play in and a national can be hum-drum. I think this depends on your outlook.

12. They're no longer eligible for "B/I" games and, G. Most other players are not in their "social" group. People voted for this? Proof of the Group 1 / Group 2 theory!

[peachy]

I assume you are talking about F2F duplicate. I remember when I was raising children long time ago, it was extremely difficult to play much bridge at all AND be good parents who are present in the children's lives and activities, in addition to working and all the other stuff that having a family involves. Don't get me wrong, I don't regret for a second the loss of available time for bridge and I am certain nobody else either. The wealthy, the single, and the retired I guess are the ones who go to tournaments much. Active age with families just don't.

[Bbradley62]

 awm, on 2011-May-25, 15:44, said:

Looking at the results here, it seems to me that:

It should be clear (not necessarily from this thread, but in general) that Forum posters do not represent a cross-section of bridge players in proportion to the universe of bridge players. There are many fewer little old ladies (and gentlemen) here, so answers to questions like these are bound to be skewed. In the real world, there are orders of magnitude more little old people who object to new-fangled conventions than there are people whose conventions have been banned.

[awm]

The "social group" thing is more of a factor than people make it out to be. In fact I'd say this is the primary obstacle to getting college students (who know how to play bridge) out to a duplicate game. Playing bridge is a lot more fun if there's the potential to make friends at the table, if there's a chance to meet someone you might do other things with away from the game, or at least go for dinner or drinks with after the session. A lot of people play bridge as a social outlet (i.e. a way to meet people, make friends, etc) and this is especially true at the club level. Even at tournaments, a lot of the reason people go is to see/hang out with friends between sessions.

Working at UCLA, I know a lot of college students who play bridge casually at the (non-duplicate and very informal) UCLA bridge club. Some of them play bridge with friends in their dorms too. But they really don't have much interest in coming out to the local ACBL duplicate bridge club, even though they all play for free there. It's not a lack of partners (pairing them up is pretty easy) or anything to do with methods (they play pretty vanilla stuff, as do almost all the club players), or even time/money (like I said, they play free, and they do play on their own anyway). Usually people are friendly to them (I suppose they do get a lot of the "it's so nice to see young people playing bridge" line). Really the main reason they don't want to play is that they will be the only people at the club under 60 and that's just "not their crowd."

The UCLA students are more interested in playing at Caltech than in the local ACBL clubs, even though getting to Caltech is an hour commute at game time (local club is 15-30 minutes away at most), it's a smaller game with a weaker field (and no master points awarded), and they play fewer boards. This is all because of the opportunity to meet bridge players who are their approximate age.

[awm]

 Bbradley62, on 2011-May-26, 01:07, said:

In the real world, there are orders of magnitude more little old people who object to new-fangled conventions than there are people whose conventions have been banned.

While people say this, I can't think of anyone who's given up or substantially cut down on duplicate bridge because they don't like playing against new-fangled conventions. Further, in my experience playing new-fangled conventions at clubs and tournaments (which is considerable) there are not very many complaints, and the few complaints that do come are from the "local expert" crowd who are addicted to the game and not from newer or more casual players who potentially might be deterred from duplicate.

[Bbradley62]

 awm, on 2011-May-26, 08:48, said:

While people say this, I can't think of anyone who's given up or substantially cut down on duplicate bridge because they don't like playing against new-fangled conventions. Further, in my experience playing new-fangled conventions at clubs and tournaments (which is considerable) there are not very many complaints, and the few complaints that do come are from the "local expert" crowd who are addicted to the game and not from newer or more casual players who potentially might be deterred from duplicate.

It is certainly true that established duplicate players will not give up playing due to too many conventions. Almost by definition, established players have accepted the conditions. The question is whether newcomers get turned off. I guess our experiences are just different. I was an avid tournament player during college and as a young adult (1981-1995 or so) and I never knew anyone who stopped playing duplicate because their favorite conventions were not allowed. I knew more players who gave up playing when smoking got banned in ACBL games, although I think that was a good thing.

My father played duplicate club bridge in the late 1950s/early 1960s, until family obligations eliminated his free time for that. He continued playing house bridge, and ran our parish's couples' bridge league for 10 or 12 years. (Couples played once a month, on a flexible schedule, with league standings by total points.) He and I played a two-session event at the Long Island sectional in 1983 (we were the only pair of two non-LMs to qualify for the finals), but that was his only duplicate until his semi-retirement in the late 1990s (at age 60). He decided to try duplicate again then, but he wasn't going to play in the beginner game and was turned off by how complicated things seemed in the main game, so he never returned. I'm sure he's not the only one.

I don't think most club games should be tailored for those who want to play 1950s Goren, but we do lose players at both ends of the spectrum.

[Foxx]

 awm, on 2011-May-26, 08:42, said:

The UCLA students are more interested in playing at Caltech than in the local ACBL clubs, even though getting to Caltech is an hour commute at game time (local club is 15-30 minutes away at most),

Good Lord, has the traffic really gotten that bad up there?

When I was at Caltech, you could get to downtown LA in less than half an hour. Of course, that was during the middle of the day on the weekend, not rush hour during the week...

My younger brother goes to grad school at UCLA, he's 28 and doesn't own a car. After reading this, I don't blame him at all whatsoever, in any way, shape or form.