[kgr]

Wrong title; should be:
Missed 6C at MP's

MP's

---

1NT was not forcing (6-9; can can have 3c♠ if 4-7)
2♣ was a limit+ inquiry and 2NT was max and GF, denying a 5+♥. (If North bids 3♦ iso 2NT that asks ♦ support for 3NT)
(South denied a 5♣-5♠ limit+; he would have bid 2NT iso 2♣).
Probably we would not have played 3NT at IMP's.
If you agree with 1♠-1NT-2♣-2NT what is the best continuation after that?

[Fluffy]

Don't think it would work on this deal, but couldn't north bid 3♦ instead of 2NT?

[kgr]

Fluffy, on 2010-December-04, 05:47, said:

Don't think it would work on this deal, but couldn't north bid 3♦ instead of 2NT?

She could, but that would be non-forcing and ask ♦ support for 3NT. Probably North thought that her hand was to good for it.

[Fluffy]

sorry I missread the OP, only 2NT forcing I see.

What is 3♣? I think your partner was very lazy bidding 3NT she could be off 6 heart tricks for a start

[kgr]

Fluffy, on 2010-December-04, 06:17, said:

What is 3♣?

No agreement.
But logically it is 5xx4 (because 5xx5 could start with 2NT iso 2♣) and no hand for 3NT (too good or a missing stopper in ♦ or ♥.
Maybe 3♥ is a better bid than 3♣

[Cyberyeti]

If 1N is 6-9, this hand is too good for it, bid 2♦. I'd certainly open the north hand at the one level, so IMO it's too good for a 6-9 1N.

[kayin801]

I think I would have bid 3♦ instead of bidding 2NT, having already bid 1NT. It sucks that we're underbidding but it will also keep us low when opener doesn't have as good of a hand but has diamond tolerance (Won't opener bid on with this hand anyway, something like 3♥-3♠-4♣ and then we might get there, or to 6♠ which might come home on a non-trump lead). Something like a splinter showing both minors after 1NT (not sure what 3♥ is for you) would be nice.

After 2NT, 3NT by N is no good, we have a huge hand for clubs and shortness in a suit partner hasn't named, so I'd just bid 4♣ and go from there, even if we only make it to 5 sometimes we'll make 420 vs 400.

I can also buy responding 2♦ initially planning to rebid 3♦ over 2♥/2NT or passing 2♠. Unfortunately this might still not get us to clubs unless opener gets super excited about the misfit and shows his clubs at the 4 level.

[kgr]

kayin801, on 2010-December-04, 10:55, said:

Something like a splinter showing both minors after 1NT (not sure what 3♥ is for you) would be nice.

1S-1NT-2C-? : 3H=6cH and Max; 3NT=5cH and Max

[downagain]

1) I suggest to play another system.. maybe proper gazzilli. You are already at 2NT and the only thing you know about shapes is that opener has 5+♠, and responder has 0-4♥.. that just looks wrong.

2) I u want to play this system.. at least have an agreement on 3♣

3) No mater what 3♣ meant.. 3N seems wrong with singleton H, 4-card club support and a good 6-card suit. There are some hands where opener has less than an invite.. and still slam looks not too bad.

[dake50]

I actually would have bid to 6S.

[Fluffy]

kgr, on 2010-December-04, 07:06, said:

No agreement.
But logically it is 5xx4 (because 5xx5 could start with 2NT iso 2♣) and no hand for 3NT (too good or a missing stopper in ♦ or ♥.
Maybe 3♥ is a better bid than 3♣

Maybe it is, but it is your system, I cannot tell you what the proper bid is in your system wich I don't know. Still bidding 3NT looks like the worse of all actions.

[kgr]

Fluffy, on 2010-December-05, 05:09, said:

Maybe it is, but it is your system, I cannot tell you what the proper bid is in your system wich I don't know. Still bidding 3NT looks like the worse of all actions.

I thought that I could bid 3♣ and partner would show her 5c♥ is she had one. But she told me that 3♣ can also be bid with a problem in ♦ or ♥; and therefor:
1♠-1NT
2♣-2NT
3♣-? :3♥ can be 4c♥ but is often only showing a ♥ stopper.

[Fluffy]

3♣ is natural there should be no doubt about it, someone has to show his shape, if you are balaned you bid 3NT.

3♥ can be just a stopper but that isnot a problem, you have diamond void and you cannot play 3NT so you can safelly bid 4♥ now.

The problem will arise when partner bids 3NT over 3♣ and you miss your heart fit. But that's not to worry much, all systems have problems with 3 suiters. You can always bid 3♥ instead of 3♣ following the major's first rule.

[kgr]

Thanks all for the answers.
Amazingly 3NT+1 was 100% score when is was played by us and scored 66.67% at the end.

[han]

Your partnership would do well to throw away your whole system, then learn to bid well using standard methods, and once you have a grasp on what bidding is about perhaps learn some of these conventions that you love so much. Now you just look like a fool.

You bypassed the whole 2-level without exchanging useful information, and then you skipped the whole three-level even though you were in a GF and found a good fit. You ended up in a contract that could have been down off the top with a slam on, but that luckily happened to be good enough to win in this field. It's complete guessing. Your system is terrible and what's even worse, the way you use it is absolutely clueless.

I realize that it is probably too late for your partnership and you will never learn to bid, but if you want to try to learn, then I think you should follow this advice. You will probably ignore this but perhaps others will benefit from these harsh words, or just think I'm very rude, that's ok too.

[OleBerg]

Well, if 2NT is gameforicng, and 3♣ is natural, it is an atrocity not to support. Partner didn't bid 3♣ as a transfer to 3NT.

If you dont know what your bid means; get a grip.

[ewleongusa]

kgr, on 2010-December-04, 05:34, said:

Wrong title; should be:
Missed 6C at MP's

MP's

---

1NT was not forcing (6-9; can can have 3c♠ if 4-7)
2♣ was a limit+ inquiry and 2NT was max and GF, denying a 5+♥. (If North bids 3♦ iso 2NT that asks ♦ support for 3NT)
(South denied a 5♣-5♠ limit+; he would have bid 2NT iso 2♣).
Probably we would not have played 3NT at IMP's.
If you agree with 1♠-1NT-2♣-2NT what is the best continuation after that?

Instead of passing 3NT, why not bid 4H to give a complete picture of your hand?
Your partner has said he has a maximum so 4H can't be that unreasonable.
For example, partner could have:

S Ax H KQx D xxxx C Q10xx

and now you miss a laydown grand.

Eric Leong

[cherdano]

These threads are really terrible. Besides all the problems with the auction that Han and other mentioned, at which point did responder deny 4 hearts? Either the auction is even worse than the previous comments pointed out, or you didn't tell us the full story.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

1S - 1NT!
3C( GF ) - 4H!jump ( splinter for Cl because 3H would have been forcing )
6C