[Trinidad]

aguahombre, on Feb 22 2009, 02:31 AM, said:

The late Irv Kostal at one time toyed with a system called "irv", which could be helpful as a basis for handling the forcing pass.  Of course, the FPS had not emerged when he invented this system. 

After a forcing pass, the next hand pretends his RHO has opened One Club.  one-level bids are overcalls, except ONE CLUb (which is a take-out double of the phantom one club bid by RHO.  Two clubs would be Michaels, other two-level bids would be preemptive or whatever the partnership plays over one club. One notrump a natural overcall, with sys on. 2nt unusual, etc, etc. 

It might not be perfect, but it surely would be easy to agree on with very little time consumption.  what to do against the ferts is another whole matter I am not qualified to discuss.

I agree that this defense requires little memory and is easy to play. However, there is a defense against forcing pass that requires virtually nothing in memory capacity: Forcing pass vs Forcing pass.

When RHO passes, you just look at the convention card in front of you and bid accordingly. If your hand type is not mentioned on the card, you can ask the opponents.

Rik

[1eyedjack]

shevek, on Feb 21 2009, 05:19 AM, said:

People overseas imagine that there are a decent number of pairs playing Forcing Pass systems in Australia but that is no longer the case.

While the regulations allow strong pass in some major teams events, few take up the challenge. At our National Open Teams in January with 200 teams, there was one pair who played HUM (not us). In the upcoming Gold Coast Teams, we will almost certainly be the only ones.

There are a few reasons for this.

1) Age. As the average age creeps up, the number of youthful players who might to try new methods declines, as the number of older players who want to avoid the hassle increases.

2) Local hoops to jump through
a) To play strong pass in Australia you need to pre-lodge the method, including a sensible defence. Fair enough.
The opponents can refer to their defence at the table. Also fair but slows down the game.
c) You cannot play you method in the first few rounds (usually 3) of a long Swiss event, so you need to come to the event with two systems.
d) You lose seating rights. This applies even if your team has 6 members and you are sitting out.

3) Eroding advantage
Take that last case. When you play a team with a sponsor or a weaker pair, those guys will tend to avoid you, so you and your team will face stronger line-ups.

In the 1980s, strong pass systems brought undeserved swings as opponents floundered. Some were under-prepared, others over anxious. Now the opponents are calmer and there are fewer free kicks. We still think that strong pass gives us an edge but not so marked.

4) Overseas trends
If you wish to play in an Olympiad, American Championship, Cavendish, Yeh etc, you will need to put your Yellow system away. Why work on something that will rarely see the light of day? Remember that there is no strong pass bidding forum or body of knowledge so you are largely on your own.

Nick Hughes, Sydney

I think that there is a fifth cause for the decline: Restricted opportunities to practice your method in anger against competent opponents. It does you little good to play these methods in some national event if you cannot prepare for it at local level.

[csdenmark]

shevek, on Feb 21 2009, 06:19 AM, said:

People overseas imagine that there are a decent number of pairs playing Forcing Pass systems in Australia but that is no longer the case.

While the regulations allow strong pass in some major teams events, few take up the challenge. At our National Open Teams in January with 200 teams, there was one pair who played HUM (not us). In the upcoming Gold Coast Teams, we will almost certainly be the only ones.

There are a few reasons for this.

1) Age. As the average age creeps up, the number of youthful players who might to try new methods declines, as the number of older players who want to avoid the hassle increases.

2) Local hoops to jump through
a) To play strong pass in Australia you need to pre-lodge the method, including a sensible defence. Fair enough.
The opponents can refer to their defence at the table. Also fair but slows down the game.
c) You cannot play you method in the first few rounds (usually 3) of a long Swiss event, so you need to come to the event with two systems.
d) You lose seating rights. This applies even if your team has 6 members and you are sitting out.

3) Eroding advantage
Take that last case. When you play a team with a sponsor or a weaker pair, those guys will tend to avoid you, so you and your team will face stronger line-ups.

In the 1980s, strong pass systems brought undeserved swings as opponents floundered. Some were under-prepared, others over anxious. Now the opponents are calmer and there are fewer free kicks. We still think that strong pass gives us an edge but not so marked.

4) Overseas trends
If you wish to play in an Olympiad, American Championship, Cavendish, Yeh etc, you will need to put your Yellow system away. Why work on something that will rarely see the light of day? Remember that there is no strong pass bidding forum or body of knowledge so you are largely on your own.

Nick Hughes, Sydney

Never in history it has been simpler to do something to turn the direction away from disaster.

Empathy is nice but 790 posts has proved worth nothing.

Dry your tears Nick. Action is needed.