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and another one

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-April-24, 14:38


Dealer: East
Vul: NS
Scoring: IMP
♠ KJ65
♥ Q93
♦ AKQ9
♣ A5


West North East South

 -     -     Pass  1♦
 Pass  2♣    Pass ?


Clear 2♠?
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
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#2 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2008-April-24, 14:59

Absolutely.
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-April-24, 15:04

A good area to have agreements. I prefer to be able to show a strong balanced hand but I guess that's not possible in standard American bidding.

2S is ugly because you could have a highly unbalanced 2-suiter or you could have something like this.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#4 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-April-24, 15:18


Dealer: East
Vul: NS
Scoring: IMP
♠ KJ65
♥ Q93
♦ AKQ9
♣ A5



and so it continues...

1♦ 2♣
2♠ 3♥
?
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
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#5 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2008-April-24, 15:19

I bid 2NT on the first time round. Surely this is forcing. If partner raises to 3NT I bid 4NT, showing 18-19 instead of 12-14.
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#6 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 00:17

I would bid the agreed number of NT.
If 2 NT shows 12-14 or 18-19 then 2 NT.
If 2 NT shows 12-14 and 3 NT shows 18-19 then 3 NT.

The hand is balanced, not a two suiter.
Kind Regards

Roland

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#7 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 00:25

2♠ playing SAYC.

2N playing 2/1.
"Phil" on BBO
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#8 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 00:26

jillybean2, on Apr 24 2008, 01:18 PM, said:


Dealer: East
Vul: NS
Scoring: IMP
♠ KJ65
♥ Q93
♦ AKQ9
♣ A5



and so it continues...

1♦ 2♣
2♠ 3♥
?

I'm headed toward 6N, but I'll stall with 4♣ for now.
"Phil" on BBO
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#9 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 00:26


Dealer: East
Vul: NS
Scoring: IMP
♠ KJ65
♥ Q93
♦ AKQ9
♣ A5



and so it continues...

1♦ 2♣
2♠ 3♥
?

so what now or is 2♠ too terrible ?
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
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#10 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 01:12

3 Heart asked for a heart control. This is no good news.
Somehow I endplayed myself in the bidding. Now I have these possibilities:

3 Spade? This should show a kind of 6-5 hand
3 NT: Is this enough?
4 Club? Sounds like a 4153 hand
4 Diamond...

I go with 3 NT. I already reversed, so I have shown some extras and I really don't like the tone of the bidding so far.
Kind Regards

Roland

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#11 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 03:06

pclayton, on Apr 25 2008, 01:25 AM, said:

2♠ playing SAYC.

2N playing 2/1.

Agree, and also with 4C over 3H.
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#12 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 09:56

I don't like 4♣, why not 4NT now? Simple natural value bid, we have no fit for partner and most values outside his suit.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
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#13 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 10:14

I don't agree with Josh but sign me up for 4NT as well.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#14 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 11:31

han, on Apr 25 2008, 11:14 AM, said:

I don't agree with Josh but sign me up for 4NT as well.

I don't agree with Han, but sign me up for 4N, a la josh

BTW, I would not endorse 2♠.. I strongly prefer that 2♠ promise at least 4=5 in the 2 suits I have bid. 2N then 4N is a perfect description of the hand type and strength. We cannot miss a spade contract, since partner will reverse into a major over 2N.. altho I admit that the continuation over 3♠ would be tricky... I could say that think that 4♥ now should agree spades and be a non-specific slam try but in saying this I would be in danger of emulating Ken in making an 'expert-level' suggestion in a B/I forum :) So I won't say it.
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#15 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 12:14

I'm not the best person to advise on how to bid in SAYC as I don't play it, but when you have a balanced hand you should bid it as a balanced hand.

That means either a 2NT or 3NT rebid, depending on what SAYC says these mean.
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#16 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 20:16

This is what happened at my table,


Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     Pass  1♦
 Pass  2♣    Pass  3NT
 Pass  Pass  Pass  


And this was the 'winning' auction,


Scoring: IMP


West North East South

 -     -     Pass  1♦
 Pass  2♣    Pass  2♠
 Pass  3NT   Pass  4♣
 Pass  4♥!   Pass  6NT
 Pass  Pass  Pass  
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
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#17 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 20:47

jillybean2, on Apr 24 2008, 03:38 PM, said:


<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> East </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> NS </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> IMP </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </th> <td> KJ65 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> Q93 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> AKQ9 </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> A5 </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->

West  North East  South

 -     -     Pass  1♦
 Pass  2♣    Pass ?</span>


Clear 2♠?

does 2c promise 100% a rebid in sayc or standard?

If not what bids do promise a rebid 100% in sayc or standard by responder?

If so prefer 2nt over 2clubs.
If 3nt shows this hand and not 2nt then of course we should bid that but the problem is so few of us remember what that means. :)
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#18 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 20:53

jillybean2, on Apr 24 2008, 04:18 PM, said:


Dealer: East
Vul: NS
Scoring: IMP
♠ KJ65
♥ Q93
♦ AKQ9
♣ A5
 



and so it continues...

1♦ 2♣
2♠ 3♥
?

IF this auction is forced in sayc or standard I now bid 4nt.
I hope this is quantative and not blackwood.....:)
If partner rebids something on the 5 level( i have no idea what that means) I will just blast to 6nt
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#19 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 20:56

Well, that's a horrible 6NT.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#20 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2008-April-25, 23:32

kenrexford, on Apr 25 2008, 08:56 PM, said:

Well, that's a horrible 6NT.

Sure doesn't look like a fav to me either.

Anyhow a good discussion here and it seems that there's no agreement on the standard way for opener to show 18-19 balanced in SAYC or 2/1 ?
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