[Fluffy]

All Vul, MP, West

pass-pass-pass-???

♠KQ
♥KJ109xxx
♦Kxx
♣x

[whereagles]

3♥, wtp?

[FrancesHinden]

2♥, wtp?

[inquiry]

2♥, wtp?

[ochinko]

Clear 3♥. If anything the LOTT has taught us...

Edit: I am very surprised that a Zar points fan could bid 2♥ here. And I am no less surprised that Frances would bid it too. The best advice I ever read about preempts was that she bids one level above the certainty. We would like to be left in 2♥ here, but since it isn't very likely that opps would leave us there, better bid 3♥ right away. Yes, it is MP, and we know for sure opps will go out of their way to compete for the part score.

[gwnn]

I'd bid 3♥ otherwise but Vul at MP it has to be 2♥.

[inquiry]

ochinko, on Jun 1 2007, 06:59 AM, said:

Edit: I am very surprised that a Zar points fan could bid 2♥ here.

Well,

1) I have an aceless hand. Partner will have two or fewer aces.

2) 2♥ describes a great suit in pass out seat and is not "preemptive". I tend not to preempt in the 4th seat. It is an offensive bid showing a good suit

3) After a 2♥ bid, it is still possible to reach 4♥. A 3♥ bid in 4th seat should be worth 8 sure tricks with a chance for a ninth. This hand is worth, on a good day, 6 in hearts (maybe 5 or less), 1 in spades, and if they lead ♦ up to you one in diamomds. So on a good day with a helpful lead in ♦, it is worth 8, not 9 tricks.

In any other seat than 4th, I would open 1♥.

[pbleighton]

2H, I really don't understand 3H.

Of course, I think Bergen raises suck too, so I'm hopeless

Peter

[Apollo81]

2♥, but I would rebid 3♥ if they tried to play in spades.

[pclayton]

I think its close between 2♥ and 3♥, but I chose 2.

I think 3♥ should be a purer hand with a 7 card suit; perhaps: Ax, KQJxxxx, Kx, xx. Pard should be able to raise 3♥ to 4 with 2 cover cards.

[foo]

Fluffy, on Jun 1 2007, 05:16 AM, said:

All Vul, MP, West

pass-pass-pass-???

♠KQ♥KJT9xxx♦Kxx♣x

The "book bid" with this hand is 2♥

I see no reason to mastermind.

[jdonn]

What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much?

[pbleighton]

Quote

What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much?

Why is 2H a lie? It says 6+ hearts, I think I can make it, no slam interest, and I don't want to make it easy for the opps to find their fit.

Peter

[jdonn]

No, it says 6 hearts, but when people say it's the bid they want to make they change the definition to 6+ hearts.

[pbleighton]

Quote

No, it says 6 hearts, but when people say it's the bid they want to make they change the definition to 6+ hearts.

Bunk.

Peter

[Apollo81]

jdonn, on Jun 1 2007, 11:44 AM, said:

What, if I may be so bold as to ask, is wrong with 1♥ rather than lying about our trump length as forumers love to do so much?

1♥ lets the opponents overcall 1♠ or 2m. Since neither has an opening hand, they will be less inclined to double or overcall 2♠ or 3m than they would a level lower. We don't care about partner here -- we just want to play in 2 or 3♥.

[jdonn]

Apollo81, on Jun 1 2007, 12:11 PM, said:

We don't care about partner here

Ok now I see the problem. You should care, you could have game too easily, there is just no reason to misdescribe your hand. I don't understand why it's the end of the world if they overcall, my defense vs. 3♠ if they choose to bid it is very fair.

[whereagles]

I do care about pard. I want him to bid one more with a suitable hand

[Apollo81]

jdonn, on Jun 1 2007, 01:15 PM, said:

Apollo81, on Jun 1 2007, 12:11 PM, said:

We don't care about partner here

Ok now I see the problem. You should care, you could have game too easily, there is just no reason to misdescribe your hand. I don't understand why it's the end of the world if they overcall, my defense vs. 3♠ if they choose to bid it is very fair.

Sorry, I don't agree on these points.