[jdeegan]

Scoring: IMP

3♠-??

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Indy IMP pairs. First hand of the day. Unknown partner. Whaddya think?

[goobers]

Have to act. I wouldn't consider anything but doubling.

[pclayton]

Normally I'll double with this pattern, but a 5-3 (or even a 5-2) heart fit may be our spot with this nice suit.

I don't think I'm good enough to x and then bid 4♥.

[jdonn]

I double to keep 3♠X and 3NT in the picture. If partner bids 4 of a minor I will bid 4♥ and just hope he doesn't take me too seriously here. That auction would be an overbid, but not as much of one as it looks like.

[han]

jdonn, on May 21 2007, 11:57 AM, said:

If partner bids 4 of a minor I will bid 4♥ and just hope he doesn't take me too seriously here. That auction would be an overbid, but not as much of one as it looks like.

I'm glad to hear that because it does look like a big overbid.

[han]

Great, thanks.

[mikeh]

I hate this hand (thus, a good problem).

While I am prepared to accept Justin's view of the current treatment of x then 4♥, this still doesn't look like the right hand for the sequence.. but neither does a direct 4♥ and I can't see doubling and then passing 4 minor, altho even there it is easy to construct hands on which that works better than anything else!

A direct 4♥ is right in general values, and would be clear if we moved any of the minor cards into the ♥ suit. A double then 4♥ would be clear if we moved one of the ♠s into the ♥ suit.

While double then 4♥ may be more flexible than 4♥, I'm going for 4♥ immediately... because 'more flexible' seems to me to invite partner to move over 4♥ if I bid it the slow way, and I do not want to get to the 5 level if he is 2=6 in hearts and a minor... unless he has a stiff or void ♠.

BTW, a useful follow up question, regardless of your initial call, is to assume 4♠ on your left....followed by a variety of possible calls by partner:

Thus, after 4♥ [4♠] P [P] is this enough to double?

After x [4♠] x [P] do we pass? etc

[Echognome]

I'm going to double and then pass 4m if that's what partner bids. Partner knows our double will contain 4-5♥ and we do not have much in extras in my view (because of the doubleton spade). If it goes (3♠) - X - (4♠) - X, then I'm sitting. I don't feel I have enough to bid 4♥ and then double. I don't like pulling to 4♥ not because it shows extras, but because I once had a partner that was dealt a six card minor.

[whereagles]

Jlall, on May 21 2007, 06:14 PM, said:

X then 4H to me does not show more than a 4H overcall, just a more flexible hand. I think this is expert standard in the new millenium.

Indeed. I subscribe by that principle and dbl as well.

[P_Marlowe]

X, that will keep most options open.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[keylime]

Double. Keeps everything in perspective.

[jdeegan]

The actual opposite hand:

A8
A10532
QJ3
K105

Six hearts is a laydown. Possible to reach after either a double or 4H. If you pass, partner may well pass, and you defend 3S for +100. If he balances with a double, +680 or +1430.

Ooops, this was actually LHO's hand. If you pass, you go -170 or -420. If you bid 4H, you go -800. If you double and LHO passes or redoubles, partner will bid 4C. You likely can take eight tricks in clubs. You get out for -200 if LHO passes out 4C or -500 if he doubles. If you bid 4H over 4C, -800.

The lesson, if any, from this particular hand confirms the panel's choice of double. Its flexibility pays off in more of the possible cases. Pass looks like a decent option. Secondary lesson, preempts are fun, esp. when you are the preemptor.

Scoring: IMP

3♠-???

---

[goobers]

I don't think passing is remotely an option

[jdonn]

Oh well, sometimes partner gives us a bad hand (especially on the forums!) It wouldn't take much change to give him xx Tx Axxx Kxxxx in which case 4♥ is excellent. A hand like that also shows me why if you start with double, passing a 4m response is not an option.

[Echognome]

jdonn, on May 22 2007, 08:36 AM, said:

Oh well, sometimes partner gives us a bad hand (especially on the forums!) It wouldn't take much change to give him xx Tx Axxx Kxxxx in which case 4♥ is excellent. A hand like that also shows me why if you start with double, passing a 4m response is not an option.

Although I understand your construction, you are also giving partner the really important ♥T. I think it's too tough to be able to find the excellent 5-2 fit when it's right. The bigger danger of doubling (rather than correcting or overcalling) is missing a 5-3 heart fit when it's right.

However, what struck me is that if LHO XX and partner bids 4m, I presume you aren't correcting now (since partner wasn't forced to bid). So LHO does better by passing (3♠X is already game and what cooperation in doubling is he hoping to get out of the preemptor?) and then waiting for you to correct to 4♥ before nailing you.

[redbird97]

If you pass 3s with that hand, you need to consider another game . 4H can be so wrong on any number of levels. You could easily be freezing yourself out of a game or slam in a minor. Double seems like a pretty normal bid.