[Apollo81]

♠Qx
♥AKxxx
♦x
♣K109xx

all red IMPs

(1NT)-pass-(2♣)*-???
* Puppet Stayman

three part question
(1) what would you do now?
(2) what would you do if LHO bids 2♠ and RHO passes?
(3) do you feel you have a extra values/playing strength for your actions?

I'm assuming that no one would sell out to 2♦pp (if that were to happen)

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

pass.

Puppet Stayman means, 2NT as answer is possible,
i.e. 2C promises at least inv. strenght?

If I bid 2H, opener has a free ride to get me, he
simply can make a forcing pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Apollo81]

P_Marlowe, on Mar 7 2007, 03:50 PM, said:

Hi,

pass.

Puppet Stayman means, 2NT as answer is possible,
i.e. 2C promises at least inv. strenght?

If I bid 2H, opener has a free ride to get me, he
simply can make a forcing pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

it was a 3 part question

[pclayton]

1. 2♥
2. 3♣
3. No, I'm a little light if anything, but 5-5 is nice and I don't want to sell out to an 8 or 9 card major fit. RHO looks like we was prepared to pass 2♦ / 2♥ or 2♠ so I expect we have a nice club fit.

By the way, when 2♣ puppet is used over 1N, 2♦ doesn't promise a 4 card major; it merely denies a 5 card major. 2N is an impossible bid over 2♦. At least thats how Woolsey wrote the original article.

[P_Marlowe]

Apollo81, on Mar 7 2007, 03:01 PM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Mar 7 2007, 03:50 PM, said:

Hi,

pass.

Puppet Stayman means, 2NT as answer is possible,
i.e. 2C promises at least inv. strenght?

If I bid 2H, opener has a free ride to get me, he
simply can make a forcing pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

it was a 3 part question

ok...

1) pass
2) pass (entering the 3 level, if I am afraid to enter at the 2 level, after they exchanged add. information? no)
3) no

[Free]

2♥, great suit for the lead
pass
no

[dake50]

1. 2H
2. 3C, 2S increases likely C-fit.
3. Not extras, but well located auction plays 1 trick better.

[HeartA]

Jlall, on Mar 7 2007, 02:25 PM, said:

1) 2H
2) pass
3) no

1) 2H
2) pass
3) maybe a little, but not much.

[whereagles]

2♥ now, 3♣ then and feeling happy about my bidding

[Fluffy]

If LHO is gonna bid spades then 2♥, if not then double 2♣

I don't find is as clear as others, I was biased towards 2♥ because you said they had ♠ fit.

[Apollo81]

Fluffy, on Mar 8 2007, 05:40 AM, said:

If LHO is gonna bid spades then 2♥, if not then  double 2♣

I don't find is as clear as others, I was biased towards 2♥ because you said they had ♠ fit.

I didn't say they had a spade fit.

I said that LHO would bid 2♠.

other posters: try to be unbiased. I think 2♥ here would be automatic if you knew that LHO was about to bid 2♠

[Apollo81]

Fluffy, on Mar 8 2007, 05:40 AM, said:

If LHO is gonna bid spades then 2♥, if not then  double 2♣

I don't find is as clear as others, I was biased towards 2♥ because you said they had ♠ fit.

So what would you do after you double 2♣, LHO bids 2♠, and it comes back around? Do you have extras for your action of choice?

[inquiry]

Apollo81, on Mar 7 2007, 02:21 PM, said:

three part question
(1) what would you do now?

1. Pass

Quote

(2) what would you do if LHO bids 2♠ and RHO passes?

2. Bid 2NT = two places to play, not specifically both minors. I expect partner to bid 3 card suits up the line. If he bids 3♦ I will "correct" to 3♥. I anticipate a 3♣ bid however and we may miss a heart fit.

Quote

(3) do you feel you have a extra values/playing strength for your actions?

yes. given my initial somewhat timid pass. If I had held AKT8x or similiar good heart spots I would have bid 2♥ over 2♣... it is that close.

[Codo]

Against strong NT:
1. pass
2. 2 NT as Ben
3. no


Against weak NT:

1 2 H
2. 3 CLub
3. surely not

[jdonn]

I can't believe how many people are bidding on #1! I would pay a lot of money for my opponents to jump in with hands like this after 1NT p 2♣. For all you know they are about to bid 3NT going down on these bad breaks, and you are just going to have to guess whether or not to run after 2♥ X p p, assuming there is even a safe place to run. If opener's bid is passed back to you, confirming garbage stayman, it's not too late to bid. If responder does anything else which confirms at least invitational strength, it is overwhelmingly likely that bidding will have taken a huge risk to accomplish nothing. I think Inquiry's answers are good although I don't even think I have much extra on 3, maybe an average hand.

[Apollo81]

I think inquiry has gotten this mostly/all right. I wonder what the difference between 2NT and double is at the second call. Responder seems to have confirmed a hand with at least some diamond length.

[Apollo81]

Here's my opinion.

I think a direct 2♥ bid is quite dangerous (see jdonn's post).
I think reopening after 2♠pp is clear.
If I pass the first time, I believe I have extra values/offense for my balance.

I am not sure whether to pass or double at my first turn. If I double, I will be quite pleased if LHO bids 2♦ and it comes back to me. OTOH I may not get another chance to bid, and a club lead may be very wrong against whatever game they bid.

If I pass at my first call, I am not sure whether to double or bid 2NT at my second call. It seems safe to assume that responder has diamonds, but does he show enough diamonds to prohibit us from playing in diamonds? My instinct here says yes because they are playing Puppet Stayman; the types of "garbage" hands he could have here contain more diamonds and fewer major cards on average than if they were playing normal Stayman. If we cannot play in diamonds, I assume that 2NT would show 5-5 round suits and double would be less distributional. If we can play in diamonds, what does each call show? Will partner be on the same wavelength?

I am going to wait for further comments before posting the actual hand.

[jdonn]

Jlall, on Mar 8 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

jdonn, on Mar 8 2007, 01:52 PM, said:

If opener's bid is passed back to you, confirming garbage stayman, it's not too late to bid.

It may be too late to bid a game now though. You're balancing and have a much wider range, and are limited by your failure to bid directly. I don't know if you want partner bidding game aggressively after you balance, but I don't. The downsides of bidding are obvious but I think the downsides of passing are less obvious as your post confirms. Even if you have a game in hearts, how will you find it on your auction when you haven't even shown (or denied) hearts? It may also be too late to get the right lead from partner.

You're right, after a 1NT opening bid I am more concerned with not going for a number than I am with bidding game. I also feel that way here since 1nt has 2+ hearts and garbage stayman has 3+, so we have at best an 8 card heart fit and usually even less. But of course I'm not saying we couldn't possibly have game.

Come on read my first post, you of all people should know if I am willing to pay money for something it must be good for me

One other very large point against bidding I forgot to mention is how much it will help them play the hand even if they save you.