[jillybean]

---

(small sample but surprising!)

Pass to you.

12-14 nt, etc

[TylerE]

Ok, so, I open 1N, now what?

[paulg]

I suspect most of my local club open this 1♥ with the intention of rebidding 2♥.

If I am their opponent, there is a far greater chance that they'll open one no trump because they know this is what I would do, but they are not really convinced.

[pescetom]

I don't play weak NT, but if I did I would be happy to open 1NT here?
I've gained the strong ground and can handle almost anything partner may throw at me.

[helene_t]

I am going to show a balanced 12-14 so if the only way to do so is to open 1nt, I will do that.

[mikeh]

Do we have an agreement that 1H 1S 1N has to be a strong notrump? If so, 1N. If not, 1H

Why 1H?

The hand has two serious flaws for 1N: a good five card major such that we may miss a good 5-3 fit and two wide open suits. Edit for typo. One wide open suit…1N, but not two

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2023-March-13, 17:05, said:

Do we have an agreement that 1H 1S 1N has to be a strong notrump? If so, 1N. If not, 1H

Why 1H?

The hand has two serious flaws for 1N: a good five card major such that we may miss a good 5-3 fit and two wide open suits. Edit for typo. One wide open suit…1N, but not two

Yes 1H 1S 1N = 15-17. I started out playing 1H 1S 1N 12-14 and 1m 1M 1NT 15-17 but that caused it's own problems so now any 1NT rebid is 15-17

I am comfortable with this style but it does mean we may miss competing in our 5-3 major. The upside I think is that we have a check back to find our 5-3 fit and if the opps want to penalize, 1NT (X) pass (P), we have an escape to 2H.

[jillybean]

TylerE, on 2023-March-13, 14:51, said:

Ok, so, I open 1N, now what?

Nothing but 5/6 players did not open 12-14 NT

[LBengtsson]

What system are you playing here, jillybean? Weak NT with 5M, I guess. 2/1 or not 2/1 responses? Certainly do not like to open 1NT here with two suits open and without a honor. Do I prefer rebidding 2♥ with ♥AK542, or rebidding 2♥ with ♥J106543?

I guess it is a matter of style. Interesting that no-one has mentioned if the bidding goes 1♥ - 1♠ raising to 2♠? That does not look quite right given its 5332 shape, but raising to 2♠ does not guarantee a 4 card suit. At least partner is likely to play the hand, in ♠ or NT and if there is a unsupported honor in the minors, it will be sort of protected on a opening lead.

If you cannot raise to 2♠ here then opening 1♥ and rebidding 2♥ is the least evil, except if partner insists that you open 1NT with all 12-14 and 5332 shape. One for the post mortem, I guess.

[akwoo]

I play 12-14 1N. This is a 1H opener. If partner responds 1S, this is a 2S raise.

I open 1N with 5 hearts more often than partner likes. But not on this hand.

[jillybean]

LBengtsson, on 2023-March-13, 23:11, said:

What system are you playing here, jillybean? Weak NT with 5M, I guess. 2/1 or not 2/1 responses?

2/1, 5 card majors, 12-14NT

[jillybean]

paulg, on 2023-March-13, 16:48, said:

I suspect most of my local club open this 1♥ with the intention of rebidding 2♥.

If I am their opponent, there is a far greater chance that they'll open one no trump because they know this is what I would do, but they are not really convinced.

Good example of imitating the experts and not really understanding why you are doing it.

[AL78]

If the major is good enough that I am not embarassed to rebid it, I open 1♥ in favour of 1NT. The suit here is good enough IMO, and with aces and kings and two suits holding no honors, it says suit oriented hand to me.

[helene_t]

Over a 1sp response, 2h is a very bad rebid imho. It shows 6 cards. But 2sp is probably OK, and otherwise 2cl is also an option.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2023-March-13, 17:05, said:

Do we have an agreement that 1H 1S 1N has to be a strong notrump? If so, 1N. If not, 1H

Why 1H?

The hand has two serious flaws for 1N: a good five card major such that we may miss a good 5-3 fit and two wide open suits. Edit for typo. One wide open suit…1N, but not two

A common agreement 30 years ago was that the 1N rebid was 12-16, and you could open flawed weak NTs with the suit. You played Crowhurst over this. We still use this structure but play 15-bad 19.

Nowadays pretty much everybody plays the 1N rebid as a strong NT.

If your spades were xx and the AJx was elsewhere, you would have no sensible rebid over 1♠ (you're not going to enjoy rebidding 2m and being raised), as it is you could rebid 2♠ although it's not ideal.

We would open 1N without a second thought.

[DavidKok]

I'm also concerned about the possibility of 1♥-2♦ back to us (or even 1♥-2♣). Presumably 2NT shows 15-17 while 2♥ implies an unbalanced hand or sixth piece. I don't mind the auction 1♥-1♠; 2♠ (though I don't have a systemic way to show a balanced 3-card raise if partner makes a Spiral ask, so I'll have to invent a singleton in a minor suit or a sixth heart) but honestly I would just open 1NT. The hand has multiple flaws for 1NT, but there are many losing auctions if we start with 1♥ as well. A poor hand for the system.

If the auction goes, say, 1♥-(3♣)-3♦-(P); ?, what is your bid? Partner is playing you for extras.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2023-March-14, 03:37, said:

If the auction goes, say, 1♥-(3♣)-3♦-(P); ?, what is your bid? Partner is playing you for extras.

Partner is not playing you for extra strength, just different distribution although not that different (what do you do with a AJx, AKxxx, x, 5432 ?)

[Tramticket]

In the past I have played every variation. I was taught that a 1NT opening would never have a five-card major (in a weak NT four-card major context). Over time, I moved to always opening 1NT with a balanced hand in the 12-14 range.

More recently I am being less rigid and this hand would be an acceptable 1H opening (just). I can raise a 1S response and whilst I would rather have a six card suit for 1H-2C/D-2H, I am not promising six. I would have no qualms about opening 1H with: AJxx AKxxx xx xx, so there is certainly no guarantee of a six-card suit in Acol.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

1H.

Over 1S from partner you can either raise to 2S or bid 2C, you will
pass 1NT from partner and rebid 2H otherwise.

In the end this is a partnership style thing, and more important, you
dont decide this, when you pick up the hand, you have discussed this
before hand.
If you go with 1NT you strengthen openers rebid, it will always show a
4 carder, if you go with 1H, you wont miss a 53 fit in hearts.

I am fine with opening this one 1NT, but I will open this 1H, we do this,
I am used to it, it works, not always, but most of the time.
But this is also true for going with 1NT.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

DavidKok, on 2023-March-14, 03:37, said:

<snip>
If the auction goes, say, 1♥-(3♣)-3♦-(P); ?, what is your bid? Partner is playing you for extras.

Given that 3D would be xfer for us, showing a constr. heart raise, I will show a min with 3H.

One could even argue, that having shon the 5th heart lets you be better placed compared to situation, where you
did not have shown the 5th heart.