[smerriman]

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How would you bid this one?

[mikeh]

If 2H is F1, then one might consider it. However, the odds are very high that opener will bid 2S and now RHO may well not let us play at a level where we rate to go plus. In addition, it’s not impossible that everyone has their bids and that the opps make 4S! Of course, it’s possible partner has great defence to spades and little offence for hearts. That’s one reason this game is so much fun.

I’d tentatively place partner with the KQ of diamonds. He needs another card to overcall. The club King (or,even better, the ace) would suffice as would the heart king, but a spade card, even the ace, may not help…opener may have an easy club lead.

Thus I think the object is to maximize the chances of playing in 4H while minimizing the chances of their bidding 4S…even though once in a while partner is loaded in spades.

Having stated the objective, I recognize that it’s not always attainable.

I bid 4H. I’m hoping LHO has a flat minimum, say KJxx Kx xxx AJxx. He really shouldn’t be bidding over 4H. Then give his partner A10xxxx Jx xx Qxx and what’s he going to do? If his partner breaks tempo, 4S would be rolled back, I think. Partner, looking at Qxx x KQxxx Kxxx won’t be happy, until we score up the game.

Note that if we go slow, opener raises spades. If they play support doubles, responder has a fairly clear 4S call after opener shows 4.

I’m not saying the hands remotely resemble this, other than partner’s diamonds, but when one holds a freak and everyone is bidding, it behooves us to take a position and hope we’ve guessed right. In my experience, aggression is usually better than going slow, hoping partner can help.

Finally, I’d not do this at the table, if only because I doubt I could do it in tempo, but passing is an option…obviously only for this round. We might know more next time. Unfortunately so will the opps, which is why I’d not do it.

[jillybean]

We don't have the boss suit and with this extreme distribution I wouldn't be surprised to hear 4♠ from the opponents.
Is there any rationale for bidding 5♥, assuming it's not exclusion in ♦?

[LBengtsson]

jillybean, on 2023-February-13, 23:03, said:

We don't have the boss suit and with this extreme distribution I wouldn't be surprised to hear 4♠ from the opponents.
Is there any rationale for bidding 5♥, assuming it's not exclusion in ♦?

You do not know if partner has any support for ♥s though a stiff may do, even a void if you guess the suit right. The hand may be distributional but what you do know is the HCPs are split nearly 50/50 between the two partnerships. 4♥was my first thought, and after reading mikeh's comment I agreed with all he had to say - as I (all of us, I guess) usually do.

On second thoughts, 4♥ here comes across as a preempt as opposed to showing a good hand. This is a good hand. I would rather bid 2♥ here, and then if the opps. bid 4♠ to bid over that - on distributional hands it is usually best to bid one more - and see what the opps. do next. The problem with 2♥ though is that gives the opps. the opportunity to raise ♠s or make a support X.

So maybe bidding 4♥ followed by 5♦ if they bid 4♠ sort of shows this hand, and imo does not show slam interest. Partner will know a) I have long ♥s, and when I bid 5♦ b) support for his suit, and extras, or that is how I would interpret it.

But if we bid 4♥ direct, it makes it very difficult for the opps. to show ♠ support, and the 4♥ bid might conclude the auction. So, I agree, 4♥ looks the best bid here.

As for thinking we are missing a slam if partner has the right cards, well I would prefer to make any plus score at the four or five level than trying to land on a dime.

[mw64ahw]

A self-sustaining ♥ suit and support for ♦ with a slam on the cards requires a forcing bid. For me 3♥ is self-sustaining and forcing so I bid 3♥. I'm not concerned about a 4♠ bid as I will continue at least to 5♦ regardless.

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2023-February-14, 03:31, said:

A self-sustaining ♥ suit and support for ♦ with a slam on the cards requires a forcing bid. For me 3♥ is self-sustaining and forcing so I bid 3♥. I'm not concerned about a 4♠ bid as I will continue at least to 5♦ regardless.

3♥ is a fit jump for me

For this reason I bid 2♥ and will bid 5♦ (or 6 if feeling frisky) over 4♠ showing long hearts and 3 diamonds precisely because I didn't FJ.

Also with the style of overcalls we play, a slam is VERY likely as the non exclusive 1♦ overcall shows a decent opening bid.

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-February-14, 04:26, said:

3♥ is a fit jump for me

For this reason I bid 2♥ and will bid 5♦ (or 6 if feeling frisky) over 4♠ showing long hearts and 3 diamonds precisely because I didn't FJ.

Also with the style of overcalls we play, a slam is VERY likely as the non exclusive 1♦ overcall shows a decent opening bid.

What would you use the 2♣ and 2♠ bids for?

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2023-February-14, 04:51, said:

What would you use the 2♣ and 2♠ bids for?

2♣ good raise to 2♦
2♠ good raise to 3♦
3♣/♠ splinter raises

[jillybean]

LBengtsson, on 2023-February-14, 00:47, said:

You do not know if partner has any support for ♥s though a stiff may do, even a void if you guess the suit right.

With an 8 card suit headed by AQT98 I'm not too worried about trump support but for the auction so far, I hope partner has a balanced hand with diamonds and 1-2 hearts.
4♥ is the book bid, will you bid 5♥ over 4♠? If the answer is yes, I wondering of the merits of bidding 5 immediately.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2023-February-13, 21:46, said:

I’d tentatively place partner with the KQ of diamonds. He needs another card to overcall. The club King (or,even better, the ace) would suffice as would the heart king, but a spade card, even the ace, may not help…opener may have an easy club lead.

Sneaking admiration for voidwood in clubs which might get you the spade lead

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2023-February-14, 14:34, said:

With an 8 card suit headed by AQT98 I'm not too worried about trump support but for the auction so far, I hope partner has a balanced hand with diamonds and 1-2 hearts.
4♥ is the book bid, will you bid 5♥ over 4♠? If the answer is yes, I wondering of the merits of bidding 5 immediately.

I don’t see why we should bid 5H right away

1. 4H will often buy the contract. You might even get doubled if LHO holds KJx or KJ9x….I’d rather be in 4H x’d than 5H!

2. It’s very unlikely that opener will bid 4S. Not impossible but unlikely. He rates to hold a minimum hand and the 1S response didn’t promise much.

3. Partner may double 4S. Very unlikely but, if he does, he has a stiff or void heart and two trump tricks. Now it sounds as if neither major makes


The time to blast to the five level is, usually, when you think that the opps may have slam…not ‘do have’ but ‘may have’. You want to make them guess, after depriving them of bidding space which would let them find out whether slam is good. We have two aces and a partner who has bid at the one level. Even if they can make slam which I’d bet against, they’re not finding it. They only have about 20 hcp, after all, and we’ve bounced high at 4H.

[sfi]

jillybean, on 2023-February-14, 14:34, said:

With an 8 card suit headed by AQT98 I'm not too worried about trump support but for the auction so far, I hope partner has a balanced hand with diamonds and 1-2 hearts.
4♥ is the book bid, will you bid 5♥ over 4♠? If the answer is yes, I wondering of the merits of bidding 5 immediately.

My basic thought was to bid 4H and then bid 5D over the inevitable 4S continuation. I'm willing to commit to the 5-level and this should give partner a good picture and allow us to compete further if it looks right.

[smerriman]

Thanks all. I did bid 4♥ and was allowed to play there.

I seem to have lost the original hand record which is annoying as I wanted to recall exactly what stopped the opponents competing further, but partner turned out to have the absolute nuts - something like KJxx in hearts, K 5th in diamonds, and the ace of clubs. After a spade lead 12 tricks were laydown, but I picked up the 13th in diamonds as well.

Really try to avoid resulting, but nonetheless it's not easy to avoid an 'oops' feeling when you go for a somewhat preemptive 4♥ and see 12 immediate tricks. So I'm glad this bid was shared by others.

[sfi]

Well done to the opponents for not bidding their making 4S and probably pushing you into the slam.

[Cyberyeti]

sfi, on 2023-February-14, 22:20, said:

Well done to the opponents for not bidding their making 4S and probably pushing you into the slam.

Not exactly, if 4♠ was making, 6♠x was cheaper than 4♥