[el mister]

We play transfer responses for our 1M openings with competition - works very well. Is there any reason not to do this for our 1m openings?

We have 1C as T-Walsh and 1D as unbal D. With competition (apart from X) we've just played systems off as that seemed like a good starting point to learn the system. Now we're more fluent would it be a normal thing to introduce when opps overcall?

e.g. 1D (1H) then X would be spades, 1S would be 1N type with a H stop etc?

[DavidKok]

There are some reasons not to do this, but I think there are more reasons in favour than against. There's several different flavours of transfer responses but so long as you and your partner are on the same page I think the differences aren't that big.

One of the main benefits of transfer responses over 1M is that you get two raises, the transfer and the direct raise. It is popular to have the cheaper bid as inv+ while the direct raise is weak. Over a balanced club this isn't that important, and over an unbalanced diamond it's usually not a huge deal to have to go to the 3-level with some values and support (more often than not you're taking out their 2M anyway). So you may want to assign different meanings to the bids of 2-of-your-partner's-suit and above if the opening was a minor.
The rest of the advantages stay the same. You get to enter the auction on a wider range of hands and have opener clarify their strength/support cheaply, and all it costs is the takeout double or power redouble.

[el mister]

 DavidKok, on 2023-January-09, 08:15, said:

There are some reasons not to do this, but I think there are more reasons in favour than against. There's several different flavours of transfer responses but so long as you and your partner are on the same page I think the differences aren't that big.

One of the main benefits of transfer responses over 1M is that you get two raises, the transfer and the direct raise. It is popular to have the cheaper bid as inv+ while the direct raise is weak. Over a balanced club this isn't that important, and over an unbalanced diamond it's usually not a huge deal to have to go to the 3-level with some values and support (more often than not you're taking out their 2M anyway). So you may want to assign different meanings to the bids of 2-of-your-partner's-suit and above if the opening was a minor.
The rest of the advantages stay the same. You get to enter the auction on a wider range of hands and have opener clarify their strength/support cheaply, and all it costs is the takeout double or power redouble.

Thanks David - one follow up q if I may, how would one deal with the loss of a normal negative double over their 1S (to show hearts) as this seems quite significant? e.g. 1C (1S) ?
Is it playable to actually define X here as hearts, and then have 1N from responder as a natural bid?

[DavidKok]

I think on that auction it is common to play double as hearts, and then either 1NT as clubs (and so forth) and give up on the natural 1NT response or 1NT as natural and figure something out for 2♣ and up. I haven't played this myself, so I'm not sure. I think the simple raise in a minor suit could perhaps be given up without much issue. You can use the cue for strong raises and jump to the 3-level with weak raises, so that would suggest something like:

X - hearts
1NT - natural
below 2 of the opening suit (so only 2♣ if partner opened 1♦ exactly) - natural
2 of the opening suit and up - transfers

I have no idea if this is playable. I have also once seen the simple "2♣ and up are transfers, if you have natural clubs you just make your peace with bidding 2♠". Probably sub optimal (especially on 1♣-(1♠)-?) but very easy to remember.

[el mister]

Thanks - we'll try that latter simple structure out and see how we go with it.

[kgr]

 DavidKok, on 2023-January-16, 13:36, said:

I think on that auction it is common to play double as hearts, and then either 1NT as clubs (and so forth) and give up on the natural 1NT response or 1NT as natural and figure something out for 2♣ and up. I haven't played this myself, so I'm not sure. I think the simple raise in a minor suit could perhaps be given up without much issue. You can use the cue for strong raises and jump to the 3-level with weak raises, so that would suggest something like:

X - hearts
1NT - natural
below 2 of the opening suit (so only 2♣ if partner opened 1♦ exactly) - natural
2 of the opening suit and up - transfers

I have no idea if this is playable. I have also once seen the simple "2♣ and up are transfers, if you have natural clubs you just make your peace with bidding 2♠". Probably sub optimal (especially on 1♣-(1♠)-?) but very easy to remember.

We play transfer responses (including DBL and RDBL) if opps intervene below 1NT and we react similar as with T-Walsh. And we do that for our bids below 1NT. The advantage is that it is similar to T-walsh. And we also prefer to bid asap. E.g with 6HCP and no stop we can bid 1S.
1D-(DBL)-?
RDBL=H, 1H=S, 1S=can be 1NT without stop or prefer NT bid in other hand, 1NT natural

We also play transfer to in between bids, but I would consider this something else (and more difficult)
1C-(1S)-?
- 1NT=Nat
- 2C=5+D; weak or strong
- 2D=5+H; weak or strong
- 2H=5cH; 4+C, weak
- 2S=C-fit, Inv+
- 2NT=natural
- 3C=C-fit; 6-9
- 3D=6cD invite
- 3H=6cH invite
- 3S=splinter
- 3NT=to play

[DavidKok]

Thank you! That's what I meant with giving up the simple raise over a minor, your structure looks solid. Why are the transfers weak or strong, and not invitational with a 5-piece? Especially with hearts I'm not eager to voluntarily go to the 3-level.

Do you play a custom response structure over the transfers? I thought the somewhat standard 'accept if you would pass a NF 2-level bid, make your normal response bid if not' works quite nicely without the need for split ranges.

[kgr]

 DavidKok, on 2023-January-17, 06:29, said:

Thank you! That's what I meant with giving up the simple raise over a minor, your structure looks solid. Why are the transfers weak or strong, and not invitational with a 5-piece? Especially with hearts I'm not eager to voluntarily go to the 3-level.

Do you play a custom response structure over the transfers? I thought the somewhat standard 'accept if you would pass a NF 2-level bid, make your normal response bid if not' works quite nicely without the need for split ranges.

Our response over the transfer is rather standard.
With 5cH and invitational we start with DBL and hope to show it afterwards (e.g. DBL...2H).
(for simplicity we always play 2NT as Good/bad, therefore 2D with 5cH and invitational would also cause issues.

[DavidKok]

Ah, I think getting the suit in is a good idea. Perhaps a different version of G/B would solve the issues.