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Balanced by Norwegian standards

Poll: Balanced by Norwegian standards (23 member(s) have cast votes)

Your rebid after 1C 1H ?

  1. 2D (ostensibly NAT, forcing but not to game) (1 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  2. 2NT (NAT, does not exclude spades) (1 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  3. 3C (NAT, non forcing) (1 votes [4.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.35%

  4. 3NT (NAT) (20 votes [86.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 86.96%

  5. Other (please explain) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 11:29

MP



Playing a fairly natural 2/1 system with 15-17 1NT.
You ignore the temptation to open 2NT (would you?) and bid 1 (may be 2 cards in 4432).
Partner responds 1 (NAT), vulnerable opponents remain silent.
Your rebid?
Please answer the poll and feel free to comment here.
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#2 User is offline   nullve 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 11:51

Interesting title!
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#3 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 12:07

No club bid is adequate. One either fakes a reverse into 2D or bids to the most likely game: 3N.

This may be a difficult hand to untangle after the reverse while the 3N needs very little to work out…including reaching higher contracts since partner now has a reasonably good idea of the nature of your hand. So 3N it is.I’d expect 3N to be close to unanimous in a poll of experts, given system constraints.
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#4 User is offline   mycroft 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 12:42

Yeah, the only complaint I have about 3NT ("I can take 9 tricks opposite a response based on my club suit, not solely 'cards'") is that I need help from partner on the signposted opening lead. But even xxx might be enough. Swap the pointeds, and I have no qualms.

But 3NT it is. Anything else is more of a lie.
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#5 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 13:32

Partner will know what sort of hand you have rebidding 3NT here. Any other bid is a lie, denying the hands playing trick strength. I would not argue with a beginner or novice rebidding 3 here, but the advanced or expert bid should be 3NT imo.
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#6 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 14:18

3NT is the bid that stands out to me, and if partner puts down xxx and they cash five off the top, so be it. I'm confident it will be right more often than it's wrong.
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#7 User is online   johnu 

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Posted 2022-April-27, 16:29

3NT. I've never had the opponents run the 1st 5 tricks when I've had this auction. Sometimes the 1st 6 tricks, occasionally the 1st 7 tricks...
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#8 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2022-April-28, 07:03

Systemically I play 3NT as solid suit with bits outside. Doesn't guarantee a full stop in both unbid suits.
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#9 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-April-28, 09:16

I can't bid 3N directly which we use for a big 4414, but can bid a GF unbal 2N, now if partner doesn't have 7 hearts or 5-5 in the reds or 5-6 in the majors, he will bid 3 and I will bid 3N to show this type of hand.
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2022-April-28, 10:19

I voted 3n but I don't think 3c is crazy. If partner passes he may have no quick tricks, or no help in spades, or 4 quick losers in hearts plus one in spades.
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#11 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2022-April-28, 12:59

pescetom 'MP. Playing a fairly natural 2/1 system with 15-17 1NT. You ignore the temptation to open 2NT. (would you?) and bid 1 (may be 2 cards in 4432). Partner responds 1 (NAT), vulnerable opponents remain silent.Your rebid? Please answer the poll and feel free to comment here.'
+++++++++++++++++++
A 1 opener is OK because this is seems too strong for a 1N opener. Now I rank rebids as
1. 3N = NAT Good clubs, good hand.
2. 2 = Manufactured reverse.
3. 3= INV Underbid.

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#12 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2022-April-28, 13:07

View Postnullve, on 2022-April-27, 11:51, said:

Interesting title!


I was thinking about a quote I once saw, attributed to Geir Helgemo, along the lines of "if it looks like No Trump then it is No Trump" :)
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#13 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2022-April-28, 14:58

Thanks to all who replied.
I bid the manufactured 2 reverse rather than a more prosaic (albeit sensible) 3NT, partly because I wanted more information and partly because I feared a diamonds lead.
I confess that my main reason for posting was to seek confirmation that 3 would have been a clear underbid, as I felt but others did not.
But it's useful to see how much support 3NT has.

FWIW here is the actual layout and auction:



Only 12 out of 106 found the diamonds lead on either side (even without the semi-psychic reverse).
And only 10 bid and made 4 (rank one up to the Norwegians).
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#14 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2022-April-28, 15:24

View Postpescetom, on 2022-April-28, 14:58, said:

Only 12 out of 106 found the diamonds lead (even without the semi-psychic reverse).
And only 10 bid and made 4 (rank one up to the Norwegians).


We bid 1-1-2N(GF unbal)-3(5-6 majors)-4 I think. W has already shown a huge hand by bidding this way, and doesn't need to cue with such poor major suit holdings, if a slam is on, E will bid on.
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#15 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2022-May-01, 05:28

pescetom' I bid the manufactured 2 reverse rather than a more prosaic (albeit sensible) 3NT, partly because I wanted more information and partly because I feared a diamonds lead. I confess that my main reason for posting was to seek confirmation that 3 would have been a clear underbid, as I felt but others did not. But it's useful to see how much support 3NT has. FWIW here is the actual layout and auction: Only 12 out of 106 found the diamonds lead on either side (even without the semi-psychic reverse). And only 10 bid and made 4 (rank one up to the Norwegians).+
+++++++++++++++++++
After opener'a reverse (e.g. after 1 - 1 - 2 - ?? I like a version of Lebensohl
- 2N = PUP request to 3 for P/C.
- 3 bids = G/F NAT
- 2M = N/F (Here,
- 2 = NAT INV shapely but N/F, so opener might prefer 3/4. Over 3 responder would bid 4

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#16 User is online   pescetom 

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Posted 2022-May-01, 06:29

Quote

+++++++++++++++++++
After opener'a reverse (e.g. after 1 - 1 - 2 - ?? I like a version of Lebensohl
- 2N = PUP request to 3 for P/C.
- 3 bids = G/F NAT
- 2M = N/F (Here,
- 2 = NAT INV shapely but N/F, so opener might prefer 3/4. Over 3 responder would bid 4



Our 2NT is similar to the French 'Moderateur' here and any other direct bid by responder except the cheapest rebid of his own suit is game forcing. So 2♤ would be a game force, but in our system it's not well defined whether it is showing or asking spades (it has to be one or the other, there is no need for a generic fourth suit game force). If it is asking for a stop (as I would prefer), then opener will probably repeat clubs and now responder will repeat hearts, leading happily to 4♡. But if it is showing spades then opener is likely to bid 3NT, which is not what I would be looking for as responder. I felt responder would have done better to just bid 3♡ (game forcing) given his hand: if opener bids 3♤ rather than 4♡ then now he can play 3NT with a clear conscience (and K protected).
One pair in my club just bid 1♧ 1♡; 3NT 4♡ p, a nice example of natural bidding doing the job well all the same.
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