[Bad_Wolf]

OK, a simple enough sequence...

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I realise that I have never given sufficient thought to what sort of East hands bid 3NT here and when they should bid 3♣-3♦-3NT say.

What is a typical holding for East here? (Sorry if this belongs in a beginner's forum, but I believe this is perhaps more difficult than it appears).

[LBengtsson]

3NT should only be bid if you hold 4♠ exactly. You do not give partner any space to mention 3 card ♠ support.

[smerriman]

Bad_Wolf, on 2021-November-20, 14:29, said:

(.. I believe this is perhaps more difficult than it appears).

I agree with this.

With 5 spades you'd go through 4SF, and with 5 clubs you'd start with 2♣, so you're probably 42(34), or maybe 4144 without interest in diamonds.

The problem is the range.. simple logic inherited from other auctions would dictate that a jump to 3NT should be balanced minimums, while stronger hands can bid 4SF then 3NT to show extras. But that doesn't work here at all, since 4SF then 3NT is also used for a minimum with 5 spades.

A couple of possible solutions:

- make 2♠ the artificial game forcing bid to free up extra room (requiring 1♥ - 2♠ to show hands you'd normally rebid 2♠).
- or make 1♥ - 2♣ a nebulous 2♣ bid, which includes any balanced GF hand.

[Douglas43]

It might sound an odd choice, but lately I've been playing the old-fashioned Standard-American style 1(suit) - 3NT is 16-18 hcp. This helps to cap other sequences ending in 3NT as normally 13-15 hcp. The high card power on these stronger hands means it usually does no harm to bypass a 4-4 major suit fit. This hand came up on BBO yesterday:


https://tinyurl.com/yghaautq

[Winstonm]

Douglas43, on 2021-November-20, 15:42, said:

It might sound an odd choice, but lately I've been playing the old-fashioned Standard-American style 1(suit) - 3NT is 16-18 hcp. This helps to cap other sequences ending in 3NT as normally 13-15 hcp. The high card power on these stronger hands means it usually does no harm to bypass a 4-4 major suit fit. This hand came up on BBO yesterday:



https://tinyurl.com/yghaautq

This is the best solution as it takes into account that opener can bid 3Nt in the 4SF auction which is fine when responser holds a more minimum hand; however, if you use 3Nt as serious when partner shows 3 spades you have to find another bid for that.

[DavidKok]

There are other solutions to this as well. Personally I like the effect Gazzilli has on this auction. If playing that convention, opener's hand is limited to about 15 HCP with the 2♦ bid. 3♣ 4SGF allows opener to describe their hand (3♠ = third spade, 3♥ = nothing to say/everything else, 3♦ = 5th diamond, 3NT = club stopper, often a 3-card suit) over which responder places the contract. There is no need to differentiate between 12-14 balanced hands and 15-17 balanced hands, because unless opener has extreme shape they have finished describing their hand. If responder holds a somewhat fitting 17-18 they can jump to 4NT (natural NF) instead.