[DavidKok]

Gilithin, on 2021-August-09, 22:02, said:

You can only use Serious/Frivolous if 3♠ promises 3 card support. And you can only do that if 3♥ is your grope rather than promising a 6th heart. Otherwise, what are you going to bid with a 2533 hand and ♣xxx? My understanding of natural bidding is that 3♠ is usually 3+ but can sometimes be only 2 card support if stuck for a bid. And if that is the agreement then I am not so sure that Serious/Frivolous is actually such a great idea here.

This is why 3♦ usually promises extras, that way 4NT is reasonable instead. I use 4♣ as fourth suit artificial. Not ideal, but you're in a tough spot with 2=5=3=3 with weak clubs.

[pilowsky]

DavidKok, on 2021-August-10, 04:12, said:

Let me give this sarcasm thing a try: I assume 4NT was quantitative, showing exactly 5=2=4=2 or 5=1=4=3 with solid clubs and a desire to play in 6NT?

In my partnership North has to initiate control bidding before it is possible to ask for keycards. Incidentally, this also leaves room for the (Non-)Serious NT and Last Train. Funny how that works out. A direct jump to 4NT would be NF natural for me, even on this auction. But it is clear you had a bidding misunderstanding about the meaning of 3♠, and I don't think you can recover after that no matter the method.

You did well.

[Douglas43]

As somebody who doesn't normally play 2/1, is North's hand really worth a 3♦ rebid in these methods? AK empty to five, AK empty to four and a singleton in partner's suit doesn't look like a great hand to me?

[pescetom]

Douglas43, on 2021-August-10, 07:29, said:

As somebody who doesn't normally play 2/1, is North's hand really worth a 3♦ rebid in these methods? AK empty to five, AK empty to four and a singleton in partner's suit doesn't look like a great hand to me?

As we play 2/1 (which is not mainstream US style) yes, the 3◇ rebid is the least of all evils and North has the minimal extra necessary to play 3nt if necessary. South already committed us unconditionally to game, knowing only about 5 card spades, the odds are still that we have a good game somewhere and describing distribution precisely is the best route to finding it.

[Winstonm]

Douglas43, on 2021-August-10, 07:29, said:

As somebody who doesn't normally play 2/1, is North's hand really worth a 3♦ rebid in these methods? AK empty to five, AK empty to four and a singleton in partner's suit doesn't look like a great hand to me?

I don't think it is - would need a 5th diamond at a minimum.

The auction IMO should be simple. 1S-2H-2S-4S.

[mikeh]

Many, and perhaps most, experienced 2/1 players believe, as do I, that 1S 2H 3D requires extras….and imo the posted hand, shown in the spoiler as AK10xx x AKxx xxx isn’t strong enough.

It’s barely strong enough in honours (I like holding 6 controls and that spade 10 is often a useful card) but the stiff in partner’s 5+ heart suit should cause opener to err on the side of conservatism.

Put me down for a 2S rebid. Note that if you believe that 2S shows 6 or more, you’re screwed here. Rebidding 2N with no club card and a stiff small heart is awful, and so those who believe 2S shows 6 are almost forced to rebid 3D.

After 2S, south has a bad good hand. The lack of controls makes it bad….the spades make it good. I could accept either the aggressive 3S or the conservative 4S.

I usually play non-serious 3N, so that 3N is a mild slam try….actually not really a try: more a statement that if the unlimited responder is strongly interested in slam, I’m ok with cooperating.

Here, north is a little too good for that, so makes a serious try with 4D.

Even if south bids 4H, north’s 4S may end the auction, but at least in theory, south has committed himself to bidding 5C….opener might hold AKxxxx Ax AJx xx as one example.

That would get them to 5S, which is precarious but not necessarily failing.

As south, if I had bid 3S, I’m slowing things down over 4D, and bidding 4S. Partner knows I have at least as good a hand as this and, with say AKxxxx Ax AJx xx, he can make one more try.

But I do think that 4S over 2S is slightly preferable to 3S. This is a very soft hand…13 hcp of which 6 are in quacks and the heart suit lacks texture. Opposite my partnerships opening bids, game is not exactly guaranteed (tho I agree with 2H)