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souths second bid 2 spades or 2 hearts

#1 User is offline   maris oren 

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Posted 2021-June-25, 13:12


after N 1 NT bid should S rebid spades or bid 2 hearts?
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#2 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-June-25, 13:28

View Postmaris oren, on 2021-June-25, 13:12, said:


after N 1 NT bid should S rebid spades or bid 2 hearts?


Tricky one - it's a distributionally strong hand with intermediate values.

I think both 2/ are too weak on this one. 3 would be OK and show the intermediate values, but I'm tempted to bid 2 as I play this as a forcing relay followed by 2NT (4+) (bar any relay break).
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#3 User is offline   Douglas43 

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Posted 2021-June-25, 13:32

There are varying views on how to bid 6-4 hands. My plan would be 2 with a view to bidding 3 if partner gives preference to Spades. But I play Acol, where false preference with 2=3 in the majors is normal.
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#4 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-June-25, 13:39

2h

Any movement by partner that shows a fit 2s, 3h, and I will bid game. Btw, with 2-3 in the openers majors responder should prefer back to known longest major, I.e. spades.
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#5 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2021-June-25, 14:10

It's clear to bid 2H on this construction. mw64ahw is wrong to characterize 2h as "weak". In standard systems, 2h is "wide ranging". It might be minimum, but it can contain hands all the way to just under jump shift strength, up to ~18 hcp. Thus responder should try not to pass 2H unless very minimum for response, should stretch a bit to bid 3H "courtesy raises" especially with 5+ hearts, and tend to make preferences to 2S with 2s/3h.

What's less clear is the same hand but weaker and with greater suit disparity, e.g. AQJTxx Qxxx Kx x. Then there are differing opinions among experts from "always bid hearts if you have them, no matter what" to "rebid spades if the hearts are really bad and spades really good".
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#6 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-June-25, 14:26

I agree with 2, more forward going than 2, I like this hand.
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#7 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-June-25, 14:56

I'm with Stephen that 2 is wide ranging, and in his second group that would always bid it.
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#8 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted 2021-June-26, 06:07

View PostStephen Tu, on 2021-June-25, 14:10, said:

It's clear to bid 2H on this construction. mw64ahw is wrong to characterize 2h as "weak". In standard systems, 2h is "wide ranging". It might be minimum, but it can contain hands all the way to just under jump shift strength, up to ~18 hcp. Thus responder should try not to pass 2H unless very minimum for response, should stretch a bit to bid 3H "courtesy raises" especially with 5+ hearts, and tend to make preferences to 2S with 2s/3h.

What's less clear is the same hand but weaker and with greater suit disparity, e.g. AQJTxx Qxxx Kx x. Then there are differing opinions among experts from "always bid hearts if you have them, no matter what" to "rebid spades if the hearts are really bad and spades really good".

I'm passing with 14(35) & 5-10 total points as 3 may struggle opposite a minimum, but likely make game with 7-10 opposite the above hand. I prefer to force the issue rather than miss the game contract.
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#9 User is offline   HardVector 

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Posted 2021-June-26, 11:29

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-June-26, 06:07, said:

I'm passing with 14(35) & 5-10 total points as 3 may struggle opposite a minimum, but likely make game with 7-10 opposite the above hand. I prefer to force the issue rather than miss the game contract.

The only hands that should be passing 2h, are dead minimum hands (valued around 5-7 pts). Anything stronger should be striving to keep the auction open.
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#10 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2021-June-26, 14:03

View Postmw64ahw, on 2021-June-26, 06:07, said:

I'm passing with 14(35) & 5-10 total points as 3 may struggle opposite a minimum, but likely make game with 7-10 opposite the above hand. I prefer to force the issue rather than miss the game contract.


If you play 2 as Gazzilli as you implied then of course that changes the definition of 2 significantly.

But in the standard context being discussed here, you have no alternative - with the shape you mentioned you're never going to find your heart fit with any other rebid anyway, which is why responder must raise with the upper half.
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#11 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2021-June-27, 13:16

2H

If partner gives a preference to 2S, which he should basically always do with equal length, and even with 3-2, you are worth a 2nd bid of 3S.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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