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responder bid - 2/1 or 4 card major

Poll: does 2c deny 4 card major (15 member(s) have cast votes)

with this hand and partner opens 1d, do you

  1. bid 2c and start 2/1 (13 votes [86.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 86.67%

  2. bid 1H to show 4 card or better major (2 votes [13.33%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

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#1 User is offline   phoenixmj 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 17:32



When we learned 2/1 we were told that with this hand, if opener opens 1D we should be 2c because bidding 1H distorts the hand. Now I am told that the correct bid is 1H to show your 4 card major and I gather this is a matter of style. Curious as to how many people play either style.

Thanks in advance.
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#2 User is online   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 17:41

2c with no second option.
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#3 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 18:06

2 gf

Imagine the auction starting 1 1 1nt, how are we ever going to convince partner that we have 6 clubs and only 4 hearts.
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#4 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 20:19

View Postphoenixmj, on 2021-April-10, 17:32, said:



When we learned 2/1 we were told that with this hand, if opener opens 1D we should be 2c because bidding 1H distorts the hand. Now I am told that the correct bid is 1H to show your 4 card major and I gather this is a matter of style. Curious as to how many people play either style.

Thanks in advance.

If you consider this hand a game force opposite a 1D opener, and in my partnerships it is really debatable, then you must respond 2C. Whoever told you otherwise is not someone I think should be giving advice (although Id be happy if he or she started coaching my opponents)

Now, is it possible that some talented bridge theorist has come up with an approach that allows for 1H on gf hands with a longer minor? I am not going to,claim its impossible, but I am going to claim that it would be difficult to play. (In fact, Id be very surprised if such a method could ever be playable, but Ive slowly learned that my stating something is not so is an invitation to learn that some great player has done exactly what I was criticizing).
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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#5 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 21:16

If you're playing any sort of natural-ish American-ish style, you bid 2c first to GF because there's no other way to convince partner you have longer clubs with only 4 hearts; other sequences that show both suits would show 5+ hearts and heart length >= club length.
It is possible if playing so called "MAFIA" (majors always first in answering) style, as in Matula's Polish club book, to bid 1H, but then you need some artificial gadgetry on second rounds to show longer clubs and GF. E.g. Matula uses responder's 2nd round 2nt as inv+ with 6 clubs or GF with 5+ clubs, 4cM, natural 2nt has to go through other sequences (e.g. artificial 2c bid).

But this is extremely rare to run into, people who bid 1h always who are doing so knowing what they are doing and having specifically designed ways to show longer clubs later. The vast majority of players you will encounter, especially in America, who recommend 1H response without knowing about the 2nd round artificiality you'd need to show longer clubs and strong, are doing so out of ignorance.
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#6 User is offline   LBengtsson 

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Posted 2021-April-10, 21:52

this sequence 1 - 2 is on border as opposite a minimum hand opener with bad fit game can be difficult. but if you play 2/1 then this hand has to be 2 response: both 1 or heavy 1Nt distort hand completely. the worst thing that will happen is that a few pairs may play in 3 or 2nt not playing 2/1 making. with 2/1 you have to accept some minimum hands opposite each other with automatic GF the bidding will end in a bad game. no bidding system is perfect.
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#7 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2021-April-12, 14:49

View Postjillybean, on 2021-April-10, 18:06, said:

Imagine the auction starting 1 1 1nt, how are we ever going to convince partner that we have 6 clubs and only 4 hearts.

by bidding 3 then 4 then 5 : voila - a game force
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#8 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2021-April-12, 19:10

View PostfromageGB, on 2021-April-12, 14:49, said:

by bidding 3 then 4 then 5 : voila - a game force

I assume youre kidding, but these days it can be hard to tell😃
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#9 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2021-April-12, 19:46

View Postphoenixmj, on 2021-April-10, 17:32, said:


When we learned 2/1 we were told that with this hand, if opener opens 1D we should be 2c because bidding 1H distorts the hand. Now I am told that the correct bid is 1H to show your 4 card major and I gather this is a matter of style. Curious as to how many people play either style.

The correct response in the most popular modern response style depends on how light you open. If the hand is a game force, you bid a longer minor before a 4 card major; if the hand is below a game force you bid a 4 card major before a longer minor. Some bidding systems use a "majors always first" structure, while others allow 2 followed by 2M on any INV+ hand but these styles are far less popular than the "standard" one.
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