[Huibertus]

 FelicityR, on 2020-July-06, 16:31, said:

Yes, that could be true. But let's say the opponents remain silent and partner opens 1♠. Where does that leave you? Partner's open in 3rd so 2♣ would be Drury if you use that convention. 3♣ would be Bergen if you use that convention. And 4♣ would be seen a splinter. But you can't bid any of these. So, the only bid left is 5♣.

I agree it's an extreme example but many advanced players could be using these conventions.

You are describing all the reasons not to play those coventions. Drury is usefull as a reminder that in today world an opening + almost an opening is not always game, but that applies to 1st/ 2nd hand too and is common knowledge. It's over rated and Bergen is the perfect tool for Opps to work out the best approach to leads and defense.

But even if you do play them, if opps remain silent and Partner opens 1 spades, barring very few exceptions we are going to play the 8 card, and the 5 level seems about the right level if there is no way to get more information

If you don't play Drury, bid 2 ♣ and wait to see if its a complete misfit or not and if Partner advertises extra strength or not. In a misfit without extra strength I might stop at 3♣.

[FelicityR]

 DavidKok, on 2020-July-07, 01:53, said:

In that case you pass, put your hand face down on the table and go for a long walk. I hear nature can be very calming.

That made me smile this morning, David Thank you.

[Fox2976]

Pass with 4 card major. Can bid C later

[Tramticket]

 FelicityR, on 2020-July-06, 16:31, said:

Yes, that could be true. But let's say the opponents remain silent and partner opens 1♠. Where does that leave you? Partner's open in 3rd so 2♣ would be Drury if you use that convention. 3♣ would be Bergen if you use that convention. And 4♣ would be seen a splinter. But you can't bid any of these. So, the only bid left is 5♣.

You lack ambition. Bid 6♣

[sfi]

There are some hands where you want to be constructive, and there are some hands where you want to turn it into a guessing game.

I think that if I open a large number of clubs my side is going to have a big advantage in guessing. If I pass, two things can happen:

• The opponents get to exchange a lot of information even in the first round. I will still have to pick a level, but they are more likely to double me when it's right and to bid on when they can make something.
  
• Partner might open the bidding. If it's spades, I certainly won't have a way to show this hand (1NT isn't a great description). I'll be struggling to show the hand with any other opening, so constructive sequences are going to be problematic. And the opponents are likely to compete anyway.

If I preempt clubs, we'll miss any heart fit we have. The tradeoff has to be worth the risk.

What to open? My initial instinct is 5C, but I can live with 4C if natural.

[SelfGovern]

 msjennifer, on 2020-July-06, 05:51, said:

Sir
One can also IMAGINE partner leading the ♣King from Kx and boy! will the faces be red as two ♥losers are discarded.

Let's hope the opponents are in a six level contract.

Your Lightner Slam Double against a suit will prevent the club lead. A diamond gets ruffed, and a heart gets cashed.

It's more problematic if partner is on lead against 6NT -- but then again, half the time you will be. (PRO TIP: Your double of a slam contract when you are on lead is never Lightner.)

[helene_t]

I would never psyche with this hand.

I would never open 3♣.

Pass, 1♣ (natural), 2♣ (Precision), 4♣ or 5♣ are all possible, depending on circumstances.

But I probably wouldn't pass. I don't like passing just because I have an awkward hand unless I have a plan for how to show it in next round. For example, with a weak hand with 6-5 in the majors I might start with pass, intending to bid Michaels or similar in next round.

But with this hand, I don't see how the bidding problem will become smaller by being postponed.

So 4♣ or 5♣ depending on vulnerability, I think.

[nullve]

 nige1, on 2020-July-05, 10:30, said:

4. 1♣ = NAT Misdescriptive.

Why misdescriptive?

[nige1]

 nullve, on 2020-July-07, 19:11, said:

Why [is a 1♣ opener] misdescriptive?

If I opened 1♣, then my partners would never expect the OP hand. Whereas, they wouldn't be shocked or scandalised if I opened a ♣ pre-empt. That was my original thinking. On reflection, however, I agree with Nullve's implied correction. 1♣ does seem a reasonable choice