[Cthulhu D]

Discussion elsewhere here made me realise something. We've got the following bids available for big hands with 4 card support (also needs to pick up 6D3M with 17+ as well) after

1D (always unbalanced)-1H:

2NT
3S
4C
4D
4H

What principles would you use when allocating hands to the bids? I try and keep principles in mind, so maybe I should play that splintering emphasizes the shortness and 2NT emphasizes the diamonds?

The relevant hand shapes to put across the bids are roughly.

4D4M41

5D4M31

6D3M22
6D3M31

6D4M21

6D5M11
6D5M20

Currently I allocate it.

2NT: 17+ with 4M or 3M 6D
3S: Splinter
4C: Splinter
4D: 6D 5H

That doesn't of course tell you when you should be considering a splinter over 2NT and visa versa.

[Cyberyeti]

What we play. (you don't have 4♦ available ?)

3♠/4♣ void splinters
2N general purpose GF with a semi forced 3♣ bid unless VERY shapely (7 card suit with <3 of openers or 5-5)
4♥ generally 6-4 or 7-4 and not all that good, I suppose could be minimum 6-5
4♦1561/1471 and pretty good flagging to partner that only side suit aces really matter, along with red suit holdings

We use 1x-1y-3N as a 4x4y41 good 18+

Over 2N-3♣
3♦ GF single suit diamonds so 3♦ rebid is limited
3♥ 6♦/3♥
3♠ 6♦/4♠/<3♥ and really big
3N 6♦/4♣/<3♥ and really big
4♣ 3451/2461
4♦2452
4♥1453/1462

[awm]

Out of question, what is 1nt?

It seems like if 1nt is forcing, you might free up some additional calls.

[MrAce]

awm, on 2018-March-26, 07:18, said:

Out of question, what is 1nt?

It seems like if 1nt is forcing, you might free up some additional calls.

As Adam said, and since 1♦ is an unbalanced hand, 1 NT rebid by opener needs to be utilized for a lot of forcing hands that would otherwise waste a lot of space.

[Vampyr]

You could play the lowest reverse as either natural, 6m3M or 4M too good to raise to 4. Next step is a relay to find out which (respond in NT with a natural splinter and a stopper in the 4th suit, and the 4th suit with a natural reverse and no stopper.)

[Cthulhu D]

awm, on 2018-March-26, 07:18, said:

Out of question, what is 1nt?

It seems like if 1nt is forcing, you might free up some additional calls.

We play a 'simple' transfer rebid structure. So 1D-1S-1NT is clubs, NF. I'm aware of the technical merits of playing it forcing, but partner doesn't want to and it's not worth the effort to change it for this partnership. (It's all the result of what is actually probably a mistaken design principle! We've agreed to maximize the opportunities to play 1NT when game isn't on and as such 1NT is basically not forcing whenever it is bid. But the results of analysis say we should probably play more 4-3 major fits. However, the principle echos through the entire system and I have no real desire to do anything about it because the cost of changing is high relative to the marginal benefits).

Quote

What we play. (you don't have 4♦ available ?)

Whoops! We play 4 *diamonds* as the 6D5H heart hand currently and 4H is undefined. So we probably have both open! My bad, I've edited the OP.

I like the suggestions that 4H and 4D are basically two variants on 'very shapely red hand, I care more or less about side suit aces'

My general comment is I don't like saying A: XYZ B: EFG C: etc etc because these bids are generally infrequent. To ease the memory load I always want to have a principles based allocation of hand types to bid. My currently principles are

1) Double jumps in new suits are splinters
2) 2NT is an artificial raise (and surprise surprise the situations where it isn't 1H-2NT has been forgotten more than once). \
3) Jumping to game is generally fast arrival and a weaker action
4) Double jumps in my suit or partners suit is... ?!?!

So I guess I'm really asking what should a double jump in my suit or partners suit be generally. It probably makes most sense for it to be a picture bid with the balance of firepower in 2H

[Kungsgeten]

If you play a transfer rebid structure, can't you put 17+ with 3M and 6D into the 2C (transfer) rebid?

[Cthulhu D]

Kungsgeten, on 2018-March-27, 01:35, said:

If you play a transfer rebid structure, can't you put 17+ with 3M and 6D into the 2C (transfer) rebid?

I probably could, but I don't want to because it would add memory load due to the asymmetry between 1H and 1S response structure. It's super simple so 1D-1S-2C is hearts, if it was diamonds would be a lot easier to do what you suggest.