[dickiegera]

You know, for those devices holding the cards for a player, is there a protocol, such that no space in between the cards is allowed? It could be so easy among partners to read distribution and the likes?
I asked our director and there is no protocol that she knows of.

Thank you

[pran]

dickiegera, on 2017-February-24, 07:42, said:

You know, for those devices holding the cards for a player, is there a protocol, such that no space in between the cards is allowed? It could be so easy among partners to read distribution and the likes?
I asked our director and there is no protocol that she knows of.

Thank you

I have not seen or heard of such protocol, but any information his paratner can possibly derive from seeing how he has stacked his cards on that holder will be UI to him.

The main point is that if his partner could be suspected of using such UI and is unable to prove beyond any doubt that he has not used such UI in any way, then he should be ruled to having used the (questionable) UI.

So there is an extremely strong obligation on any player using aids because of some handicap to behave in such a way that there cannot be raised any question on possible UI.

[wank]

pran, on 2017-February-24, 08:52, said:

I have not seen or heard of such protocol, but any information his paratner can possibly derive from seeing how he has stacked his cards on that holder will be UI to him.

The main point is that if his partner could be suspected of using such UI and is unable to prove beyond any doubt that he has not used such UI in any way, then he should be ruled to having used the (questionable) UI.

So there is an extremely strong obligation on any player using aids because of some handicap to behave in such a way that there cannot be raised any question on possible UI.

i like using the disabled toilet too, pran. yes, they can't walk very far, but they're perfectly capable of waiting in a queue, and after all, they even bring their own chair to sit and wait in.

there are too many disableds who are exploiting the system: staying at home with their legs up ('leg up' if they don't even bother to have 2) and accruing their benefits while real people go and labour away as professional bridge players and directors paying taxes which are then paid out as those same benefits.

[mycroft]

I have a partner who uses a cardholder. I have never had anyone suggest that *I* might be devising shape or other information from where she takes her cards; we have have several people, including world-class players, suggest that she should be more careful because our *opponents* may be getting shape or other information from where she takes her cards. We have to decide how much that information is worth (compared to not being able to keep track of suits, et al).

Now, I will admit that some of those comments could very easily be "polite suggestions" that "of course, *your* partner would not be doing it, but some people would", and implying that I was doing it; that's certainly one of my favourite "of course I'm not accusing" tricks. But I don't look at partner when I'm playing (because I follow the Law, and because I've had the pleasure of several partners who were both smart and distractingly attractive, and it would be impolite to be distracted until after the session. So it's easy not to look at partner when I have cards in my hand when she's got a cardholder on the table.)

[sanst]

wank, on 2017-February-24, 11:29, said:

i like using the disabled toilet too, pran. yes, they can't walk very far, but they're perfectly capable of waiting in a queue, and after all, they even bring their own chair to sit and wait in.

there are too many disableds who are exploiting the system: staying at home with their legs up ('leg up' if they don't even bother to have 2) and accruing their benefits while real people go and labour away as professional bridge players and directors paying taxes which are then paid out as those same benefits.

Thank you for being so understanding about the disabled. I would like to say more, but I have to abstain, because it would be inadmissible. Even if it's supposed to be a joke, your text is highly inappropriate and insulting.

[barmar]

I read wank's post as a sarcastic way to point out pran's folly in attributing malice to the disabled people who use card holders.

[pran]

barmar, on 2017-February-24, 16:16, said:

I read wank's post as a sarcastic way to point out pran's folly in attributing malice to the disabled people who use card holders.

My folly?

I have never seen or heard of any misuse of such aids for the disabled, but I thought it proper to warn about the "dangers" if one meets the right opponent.

However, my experience is that disabled players enjoy bridge as such so much that their last idea is to (ab)use their aids for foul play.

But we can never know what ideas the SB could produce ?

[Cyberyeti]

I haven't seen disabled people abusing aids that allow them to play, but I have suffered at the hands of them. There was a husband/wife pair where the wife had really bad eyesight. They were set up as a sitting NS with a really intense light shining on the table. It was so bright that if I played them (which happened 2 or 3 times), the light reflecting off the cards gave me an almost instant massive headache. I decided to refuse to play them with that light on after the last occasion but have never seen them again so it's not been tested.

[lamford]

sanst, on 2017-February-24, 14:32, said:

Thank you for being so understanding about the disabled. I would like to say more, but I have to abstain, because it would be inadmissible. Even if it's supposed to be a joke, your text is highly inappropriate and insulting.

Clearly wank's sarcasm was wasted on at least one person ...

[lamford]

pran, on 2017-February-24, 17:09, said:

But we can never know what ideas the SB could produce ?

SB points out that he has never called the TD when an opponent has been disabled, and indeed has waived dropped penalty cards, mispulls and other irregularities. He finds more than enough scope for rulings against the careless able-bodied person.