[steve2005]

I noticed in the last set of USBC open, women's and senior team trials a fair number of pairs were using 1M-3M as a mixed raise rather than 3♣ (or for those playing rev-Bergen 3♦)

Is this becoming a trend at expert level?

edit Mixed raise = 7-9 pts and 4+ trump. or there abouts.

[Phil]

steve2005, on 2016-June-29, 15:32, said:

I noticed in the last set of USBC open, women's and senior team trials a fair number of pairs were using 1M-3M as a mixed raise rather than 3♣ (or for those playing rev-Bergen 3♦)

Is this becoming a trend at expert level?

It has been for 7-10 years. Bergen gets played but is unusual. A few old timers still play limit.

[johnu]

In the latest Bridge World Standard 2017, a jump to 3♣/3♦ over a major suit opening (3♥ after 1♠ opening) are invitational hands with a long suit. 3 of a major is still a limit raise.

[mikestar13]

1M-3M is an easy and obvious way of showing a mixed raise when 1M-2NT is limit+ (or limit/slammish in a limited opening system), these used together free up 3♣/3♦ for whatever fits your system best. I never had much success with the classic Bergen preemptive 1M-3M = 4 trumps and 0-6 ish and don't miss it..

[Phil]

johnu, on 2016-June-29, 20:08, said:

In the latest Bridge World Standard 2017, a jump to 3♣/3♦ over a major suit opening (3♥ after 1♠ opening) are invitational hands with a long suit. 3 of a major is still a limit raise.

BWS always has about a 10-20 year lag in these matters.

[johnu]

Phil, on 2016-June-29, 20:57, said:

BWS always has about a 10-20 year lag in these matters.

Since the polls only take place every 15-20 years, and it takes a year plus to publish the poll questions and publish the results, the system will be frequently out of date. Still, it usually takes a lot of years for something new to become the majority choice.

There are some experts in the poll (who are they? Master Solver's panel plus some selected others?) who are basically retired from competitive bridge so you wouldn't expect them to be up to date in current systems. Most of the others are still pretty active in playing high level bridge or involved in teaching so they should be up to date in what is being played these days. In theory, the answers are supposed to be based on what they would encounter in expert encounters, not personal preferences.

[WesleyC]

The main reason for the switch is frequency. Bergen style, 0-5 HCP hands simply don't come up very often and even when they do, advertising a big fit and a weak hand is often counterproductive.

[PhantomSac]

WesleyC, on 2016-June-30, 00:29, said:

The main reason for the switch is frequency. Bergen style, 0-5 HCP hands simply don't come up very often and even when they do, advertising a big fit and a weak hand is often counterproductive.

Yep this exactly

[jogs]

WesleyC, on 2016-June-30, 00:29, said:

The main reason for the switch is frequency. Bergen style, 0-5 HCP hands simply don't come up very often and even when they do, advertising a big fit and a weak hand is often counterproductive.

PhantomSac, on 2016-June-30, 01:08, said:

Yep this exactly

Have experts stopped playing Bergen? No law protects 'bad' bidding.

This happened to me in a Swiss, opponents silent
1♥ - 3♣
3♥ - all pass

3♥-1. The board was a push. Opponents were also playing Bergen.

[straube]

jogs, on 2016-June-30, 16:26, said:

Have experts stopped playing Bergen? No law protects 'bad' bidding.

This happened to me in a Swiss, opponents silent
1♥ - 3♣
3♥ - all pass

3♥-1. The board was a push. Opponents were also playing Bergen.

Probably something was making the other way?

[aguahombre]

jogs, on 2016-June-30, 16:26, said:

Have experts stopped playing Bergen? No law protects 'bad' bidding.

This happened to me in a Swiss, opponents silent
1♥ - 3♣
3♥ - all pass

3♥-1. The board was a push. Opponents were also playing Bergen.

The point being? If they were using the 'expert' 3♥ mixed raise, the result would have been the same (excellent with a nine card fit), but they wouldn't have given the opponents the extra space along the way.

[steve2005]

aguahombre, on 2016-July-01, 01:39, said:

The point being? If they were using the 'expert' 3♥ mixed raise, the result would have been the same (excellent with a nine card fit), but they wouldn't have given the opponents the extra space along the way.

not to mention the possibility of a double for lead. (or inference from inaction)

[Stefan_O]

why is it called "mixed?"
mix of what?

[jogs]

aguahombre, on 2016-July-01, 01:39, said:

The point being? If they were using the 'expert' 3♥ mixed raise, the result would have been the same (excellent with a nine card fit), but they wouldn't have given the opponents the extra space along the way.

Maybe 1♥ - 2♥ would have ended the bidding.

[Stefan_O]

Stefan_O, on 2016-July-01, 12:26, said:

why is it called "mixed?"
mix of what?

I guess this is the answer:

"Mixed Raise and Fit Showing Jumps - A call which has both constructive and preemptive properties."

http://www.bridgehan...Mixed_Raise.htm

[rhm]

Stefan_O, on 2016-July-01, 12:26, said:

why is it called "mixed?"
mix of what?

My understanding is:

The word "mixed" is derived from the fact that this is a supportive hand with some values and is sandwiched between a preemptive and an invitational raise.

raises below game (most insist on a minimum of 4 card support, because you often commit to the three level) are categorized according to:

raises, which force to game (Jacoby etc)
raises, that invite game, called a limit raise, just not enough to force to game, often described as 10-11 "support points"
mixed raises, about a trick weaker (on average) than a limit raise, often described as 6-9 "support points"
preemptive raise, where you do not want to preempt to game, about two tricks weaker (on average) than a limit raise, often described as 0-6 "support points".

Once a fit is found I prefer evaluating hands according to loser count, provided you use the one I like, which is close to NLTC (new loser count)

Then a limit raise has 7.5-8 loser
A mixed raise 8,5-9 loser
A preemptive raise more than 9 loser

If partner opens 1♠ the following hands would qualify for me as a mixed raise:

1) ♠QJxx ♥xx ♦Kxx ♣Qxx
2) ♠Qxxx ♥x ♦Kxxx ♣xxxx

Rainer Herrmann

[Trinidad]

As far as I know, a mixed raise is a mix between a simple raise on the one side and a preemptive raise/limit raise on the other side.

A simple raise has three card support and about 7-10 points.
A limit raise and a weak raise have four card support and either 0-6 or 11-12 points.

Hands with four card support with 7-10 points have too many trumps for a simple raise and don't have the right strength for a preemptive or limit raise.

So, you want to properly frame the high card strength (HCPs) and the playing strength or competitive strength (trump support). It is often a good idea to show hands with competitive strength as quickly as possible in as few bids as possible. That is why one single bid for this kind of hand was invented: The mixed raise.

Disclaimer: Trump support and HCPs are merely guidelines. I have a very creative and very good partner. He can find mixed raises with three card support and they are the right hands for it.

Rik

[paulg]

Robson/Segal defined a mixed raise as 'a semi-preemptive raise with some defence'.

You can learn far more than you want about this topic in their book - Partnership Bidding at Bridge (PDF)

[rhm]

paulg, on 2016-July-05, 07:04, said:

Robson/Segal defined a mixed raise as 'a semi-preemptive raise with some defence'.

You can learn far more than you want about this topic in their book - Partnership Bidding at Bridge (PDF)

Comes to the same difference.

Rainer Herrmann

[ArtK78]

I have not given up using the jump raise in an uncontested auction as preemptive. However, I use the jump raise in competition as a mixed raise.