[Hyperon]

A board from today's match against JEC:

Diagram

I'm not interested in how the play went, only the auction. I passed 4♠, Lorenzo Lauria bid 5♣ over it on the other table. I don't understand this fully. Can't partner have a 6322, 5422, ...?

Further: would it be useful to seperate t/o doubles with 4 spades from t/o doubles without 4 spades by simply bidding 4♠ with the first type? Two consequences I can think of:

1) You lose the option to play 4♥X opposite the first hand type, but there could be more to gain than to lose there.
2) Your 5x6x hands are buried in the 4♠ bid: neglegible?

[straube]

The odds are better for having a fit (particularly a big) fit in one of the minors. Partner will bid spades with four before bidding a four (or more) card minor in order to stay a level lower, so you ought to remove from a very possible Moysian fit. If partner has six spades (or five spades without a minor fit) he can count on you for spade tolerance (likely 3-cd support) and preference back to 5S. It's a level higher, but the price of finding the best fit.

Even if you have a 5-3 spade fit in 4S, 5m could be right. The 3055 hand is probably being tapped at trick one and partner could have real handling difficulties....drawing trump while the opponents continue to force with hearts. If your partner has 5S/4m then it's like a dummy reversal with your partner drawing trump with his hand while maintaining control with your hand.

If it's only a 4-3 spade fit, very likely it's going down and there was probably a better fit elsewhere. If you believe the 4H bidder (and pd had a chance to penalize them), partner ought to have a lot of non-heart cards.

[MrAce]

I do not know why he bid 5♣ after dbl, but if I was your pd contract would 100 % be played 4♥ X ed. I am not bidding with S hand.

[Phil]

Don't you play an unbalanced diamond? Then 5D seems pretty easy.

[MrAce]

Phil, on 2016-June-11, 21:06, said:

Don't you play an unbalanced diamond? Then 5D seems pretty easy.

What does unbalanced ♦ open with 4144 or 4054?

I find bidding with S hand bizarre. Everybody here in BBF and BW advocates a lot of hands with only 7 card suit to bid 4, yet this hand has 9 and we try to find a good spot with 4342 and weak hand. when pd doubles,
Pd would also dbl with 3244 3253 19 hcp.
Pd would also DBL with stiff ♥ when 4♥ bidder has 8 of them, even 9 of them and this alone changes the outcome a lot.
Otherwise of course I would also want to bid with S hand if I know pd is void. Jec gets it almost always right. My problem is not with Lorenzo's choice.

I personally like the explanation of Straube about Lorenzo's action.

[nige1]

Hyperon, on 2016-June-11, 19:56, said:

A board from today's match against JEC: Diagram
I'm not interested in how the play went, only the auction. I passed 4♠, Lorenzo Lauria bid 5♣ over it on the other table. I don't understand this fully. Can't partner have a 6322, 5422, ...?
Further: would it be useful to seperate t/o doubles with 4 spades from t/o doubles without 4 spades by simply bidding 4♠ with the first type? Two consequences I can think of:

1) You lose the option to play 4♥X opposite the first hand type, but there could be more to gain than to lose there.
2) Your 5x6x hands are buried in the 4♠ bid: neglegible?

IMO

• North's double seems reasonable, showing a good T/O, with primary ♠ support.
• Bidding 4♠ with 4054 might lose ♣ fits.
• South should probably pass. A 4♠ bid usually has more shape and better ♠s.
• Expecting South to hold a better hand, Lauria probably bid 5♣ as a mild natural slam-try,

---

[Phil]

Of course it never OCCURRED to this particular East to not rebid his defenseless NINE bagger.

[Phil]

MrAce, on 2016-June-11, 21:31, said:

What does unbalanced ♦ open with 4144 or 4054?

He'd open 1D of course but 4144 is like maybe 5% and this still may be a 1C opener - it would be for me. Furthermore a balanced 3253 18 is still a 1C opener.

Put it this way. If partner opened 1S and RHO bid 4H wouldn't you bid 4S after a x? It's not that much different except here partner is a lock for a stiff max heart.

[mike777]

Hyperon, on 2016-June-11, 19:56, said:

A board from today's match against JEC:

Diagram

I'm not interested in how the play went, only the auction. I passed 4♠, Lorenzo Lauria bid 5♣ over it on the other table. I don't understand this fully. Can't partner have a 6322, 5422, ...?

Further: would it be useful to seperate t/o doubles with 4 spades from t/o doubles without 4 spades by simply bidding 4♠ with the first type? Two consequences I can think of:

1) You lose the option to play 4♥X opposite the first hand type, but there could be more to gain than to lose there.
2) Your 5x6x hands are buried in the 4♠ bid: neglegible?

with a void in h prefer 5c now ...not x
---


the answer to your questions is you are void in h and have a strong hand with both minors.

Not sure what your issue is. Yes you lose the option to play 4hx yes you may go down and yes you may miss a making 4s.


I dont hate double I just prefer to bid my hand with 5c and a void in h.

[mcphee]

Double of 4H was because he was willing to defend should partner elect to convert to penalties. When partner pulls it becomes a matter of playing in S and taking the tap on the go which can not be a good thing should partner hold only 4S, or run to a minor. The one factor is partner did not double 4H t/o so when he does bid 4S he knows he is buying very little making the possible 4/3 very bad.

[MrAce]

Phil, on 2016-June-11, 22:38, said:

He'd open 1D of course but 4144 is like maybe 5% and this still may be a 1C opener - it would be for me. Furthermore a balanced 3253 18 is still a 1C opener.

Put it this way. If partner opened 1S and RHO bid 4H wouldn't you bid 4S after a x? It's not that much different except here partner is a lock for a stiff max heart.

Ok, I did not know he would open 1♣ with 2 of them and 5♦. OP did not mention any of these.

But I know JEC and Lorenzo do not play unbalanced ♦, do they?

[Hyperon]

We do not play unbalanced ♦, just a standard 4+.

My side point was that with hands like 4144 or 4054 I may have bid 4♠ instead of double... or not?

[Phil]

Hyperon, on 2016-June-12, 08:36, said:

We do not play unbalanced ♦, just a standard 4+.

OK, I was just guessing at the methods.

If partner has

1. AKxx void AQxxx Axxx, we are getting a fair chunk out of 4H but 4S and 5D are OK too.
2. AQx x AKQxx AQxx, 5D is good, 4S is pretty bad, but pass again looks oK
3. KQxx x KQxx AQxx looks like a minimum double. 4S looks pretty awkward and looks like would lose a 2nd trump trick at some point. Pass again looks good.

So I like Timo's pass. The best we could hope by bidding is:

4. Axx void AKQxxx Axxx. Here, we better defend well to beat 4H, but 5D is easy.