[dickiegera]

---

Is this bid LEGAL

If not where in ACBL rules does it talk about this?

[hrothgar]

dickiegera, on 2015-September-23, 08:19, said:

---

Is this bid LEGAL

If not where in ACBL rules does it talk about this?

Is the bid a psyche or does this bid correspond to a partnership agreement?

If this bid corresponds to a partnership agreement, what is said agreement?

What event did this bid occur in and what set of regulations was in effect?

[aguahombre]

How many fingers was North exposing while he held his cards?

[Cyberyeti]

We've played minimum 4 card weak 2s in the EBU for many years, there was a recent change to make them alertable rather than announceable, but they've always been legal.

Not sure about ACBL, but I suspect it depends as others say whether it's system or deviation.

[barmar]

GCC doesn't mention the length requirements for natural preemptive bids.

The Alert Procedure says:

Quote

As to length, ACBL accepts as NATURAL any offer to play in a suit for the first time that shows:
...
Five or more cards for a weak two-bid.
...
NOTE: Partnerships whose systems include extremely aggressive methods, such as frequent use of four-card overcalls at the two level or higher, weak two-bids with bad five-card suits, or three-level preempts with bad six-card and/or most five-card suits must pre-Alert the opponents before the round begins.

also:

Quote

2) SYSTEMS BASED ON VERY LIGHT OPENINGS OR OTHER HIGHLY AGGRESSIVE METHODS

If it is your partnership style to routinely open hands with fewer than 10 HCP, preempt with very weak (frequently worse than Qxxxxx) suits, and/or overcalls with fewer than 6 HCP at the one level, the opponents must be pre-Alerted.

So it sounds like this may be legal, but if so it clearly requires a pre-alert.

[weejonnie]

Cyberyeti, on 2015-September-23, 09:04, said:

We've played minimum 4 card weak 2s in the EBU for many years, there was a recent change to make them alertable rather than announceable, but they've always been legal.

Not sure about ACBL, but I suspect it depends as others say whether it's system or deviation.

Surprisingly the call is legal at level 2 in the EBU (for novice and no fear events) . Obviously you must have no fear when making the call with only 4 hearts.

[blackshoe]

Whether the bid is legal, as others have said, depends on the partnership agreement and the specific regulations in force.

Whether it's sane is another question.

[steve2005]

blackshoe, on 2015-September-23, 15:16, said:

Whether the bid is legal, as others have said, depends on the partnership agreement and the specific regulations in force.
Whether it's sane is another question.

Yes, if opponent pre-alert that they open weak 2's on 4-card suits and 5 pretty worthless pts. Then I'm dusting off my penalty double methods vs weak 2's.

[aguahombre]

weejonnie, on 2015-September-23, 14:09, said:

Obviously you must have no fear when making the call with only 4 hearts.

Yes, no fear that partner has two or fewer hearts --- and no fear that partner will raise in competition with 3 or four hearts. There are ways to not have these fears.

[blackshoe]

aguahombre, on 2015-September-23, 18:52, said:

There are ways to not have these fears.

"Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep."

[rmnka447]

I believe the ACBL standard for weak 2 bids is 5 cards in the suit bid and 5 points.

[gordontd]

steve2005, on 2015-September-23, 17:32, said:

Yes, if opponent pre-alert that they open weak 2's on 4-card suits and 5 pretty worthless pts. Then I'm dusting off my penalty double methods vs weak 2's.

I used to play with someone, now long gone, who insisted on playing penalty doubles against weak twos. The only decent result we got from it was against someone who had judged to open a weak two with a twelve count, and even then we would have had the same result playing takeout doubles.

[blackshoe]

rmnka447, on 2015-September-23, 22:12, said:

I believe the ACBL standard for weak 2 bids is 5 cards in the suit bid and 5 points.

Not exactly. Natural two bids are not specifically regulated. However, conventional responses and rebids and conventional defenses to an opponent's conventional defense are disallowed if a weak two bid shows, by partnership agreement, a range of greater than seven points or a minimum of fewer than five cards in the suit. Note also that a two bid which could by partnership agreement have fewer than five cards is, per the alert chart, not natural. One could argue that an agreement to open a weak two with four cards is not natural, and not specifically allowed on the GCC, and is therefore illegal on that chart. One could also argue that because the term "weak two bid" is nowhere specifically defined, such an agreement is legal per Item seven under "allowed", provided the agreement is that the hand is a "weak two" (whatever that means) with a side four-card minor. This provision does not specify a minimum length for the major.

Note that while we know that South opened 2♥ with a four card suit, we do not know that this conforms to a partnership agreement.

[barmar]

rmnka447, on 2015-September-23, 22:12, said:

I believe the ACBL standard for weak 2 bids is 5 cards in the suit bid and 5 points.

Is that written down in anything official?

[blackshoe]

barmar, on 2015-September-24, 08:46, said:

Is that written down in anything official?

Not that I'm aware.

[kevperk]

From the lack of any more information, I think, although I could be wrong, that the pair in question play standard weak two bids, and that this player chose to make this bid because he was in third seat. I think answers from this perspective would be most helpful for the OP. My only comment at this point is that this pair may not have discussed anything related to this, but there may be some partnership tendencies that partner of this hand may know, and should disclose.