[Trinidad]

I would interpret 4♥ as a splinter. And I would not stop bidding below 6♠, given that I am dead max with nothing wasted in hearts, 2 controls and the most distributional hand I can have. If I would have an ace, I would cue it. I don't have an ace, so I would simply bid 6♠.

As a TD, I would adjust to 6♠-2. Leaving the decision to the club owner is the last thing I would do.

Rik

[Cyberyeti]

wank, on 2014-April-10, 17:36, said:

no you're comparing apples and oranges. if you assume it's a raise, rather than fluffy's interpretation, it should be a shortage of some variety. as they're playing precision , 3s is a non-descript gf raise.

I agree that once you've established a GF there's no point in playing 4♥ as what we play it as in the 1N opened auction, but most people will play 4♥ as a splinter in that auction which is valid here.

Passing 4♥ is not a LA. My alternative would be 5♠ (nothing to cue but interested) and partner knowing he's off A♣/K♦ passes. This can certainly be made, but in the UK I suspect would be a split score with part of 5♠= and part of 5♠-1.

[helene_t]

What? Calling the ACBL headquarter for a ruling in a club game? I wouldn't even have the synapses to call the club TC with such a trivial thing. Just make whatever ruling seems right and be ready to take the blame if it is wrong!

Fortunately 4♥-2 and 6♠-2 is the same score so -100 to EW.

FWIW I agree with Fluffy. Also because nonvul opps being silent in our strong club auction with 10 hearts between them is unlikely. I would have passed.

[mfa1010]

I also play precision and in the comparable sequence 4♥ would be natural for us.

[hrothgar]

mfa1010, on 2014-April-11, 04:45, said:

I also play precision and in the comparable sequence 4♥ would be natural for us.

Late to the party:

FWIW, I was playing Precision in a pickup partnership in a tournament just last Friday night, using the same "transfer stayman" type system.

1. We had not discussed what a 4♥ continuation would have meant in that situation, however, without discussion I would have assumed that it was a splinter.

2. Had partner bid 4♥, I am torn about how best to respond. I reject the claim that pass is a logical alternative. However, it might be worth considering keycard. (I have a minimum strength 1N, however, none of my points are wasted in the heart suit)

At the end of the day, I can't see how the failure to alert 2♥, suggests passing.
If partner had hearts, he would have bid hearts over 1NT

[mycroft]

If partner failed to alert the 2♥ call, jumped to 4♥, and I passed, I'd expect a scream for the TD. Whether it was right or not.

I do think there is a LA to 4♠; but it sure isn't Pass. It's undiscussed in my Precision system, too, but:
- 2♥ is natural after 1NT and triggers asking bids;
- 1NT is GF, so I would take 1♣-1NT;2♣-2♥;3♥-whatever;4♥ as "I was interested in more if you had 4 hearts, partner" (probably) - either that or ...2NT-whatever; correct 3NT to 4♥.

Partner has way too many ways to reject spades and insist on hearts for a "oh, that's unfortunate" jump to 4♥ to be reasonable.

In addition to the correction of the lack of Alert of 2♥, if 4♥ is potentially Alertable, then before the opening lead it should have been Delayed Alerted "Undiscussed, but could be shortness slam try" or whatever.

[whereagles]

I can hardly believe pard has a 6-4 majors. And even if he has one, why didn't he bid 2♠ when he heard of the fit? 4♥ as natural, to play, makes absolutely no sense to me.

So it's either
1) pard forgot 2♥ was spades (I dunno how likely this is...)
2) pard has spade fit and is making some muddy move (in which case I'll have a little talk with him in the end)

If 1) is unlikely, then I would not pass.

[CSGibson]

mfa1010, on 2014-April-10, 18:50, said:

That system criticism is open for debate. 1N as a response to 1C has to mean something (or would you forbid responder to bid NTs?), and even though a balanced hand is frequent, being balanced means that the wrongsiding is much-much less bad on average than if 1N was some unbalanced type with some shortage(s). The actual hand is fine as declarer for instance, with honours in every suit to get the lead around to.

I may have been a bit over the top, but again, I don't see evidence of sensible system agreements so I don't want to assume them.

Just as a side FYI, I strongly favor a transfer-style precision, with 1N being a heart positive (1S as balanced or clubs), as I feel that wrongsides far fewer contracts on average, even if there are a few circumstances where it does wind up wrong-siding.

[dboxley]

4NT
4H is a splinter and all my cards are working, hopefully partner can take over from here and maybe bid GSF.

[blackshoe]

Trinidad, on 2014-April-11, 00:45, said:

I would interpret 4♥ as a splinter. And I would not stop bidding below 6♠, given that I am dead max with nothing wasted in hearts, 2 controls and the most distributional hand I can have. If I would have an ace, I would cue it. I don't have an ace, so I would simply bid 6♠.

As a TD, I would adjust to 6♠-2. Leaving the decision to the club owner is the last thing I would do.

Rik

I guess I forgot to mention that the club owner in this case is one of the best TDs in the area. He's also a college professor, so doesn't run his afternoon games when he's working.

[blackshoe]

whereagles, on 2014-April-11, 11:06, said:

I can hardly believe pard has a 6-4 majors. And even if he has one, why didn't he bid 2♠ when he heard of the fit? 4♥ as natural, to play, makes absolutely no sense to me.

So it's either
1) pard forgot 2♥ was spades (I dunno how likely this is...)
2) pard has spade fit and is making some muddy move (in which case I'll have a little talk with him in the end)

If 1) is unlikely, then I would not pass.

What would you do if 1) is likely?