Help
3♣ was GF, expert opponents.
IMP
What do you lead ?
#1
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2014-March-18, 03:53
3♣ was GF, expert opponents.
IMP
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#2
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,015
- Joined: 2005-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
- Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.
Posted 2014-March-18, 10:01
Top heart spot.
I am bemused at 3♣ gf: I don't doubt the description but am having trouble understanding how that is playable...do they use 2♦ as some form of punt?
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I have talked myself out of the winning, mundane, low spade lead, giving declarer his 8th trick but not his 9th.
I am bemused at 3♣ gf: I don't doubt the description but am having trouble understanding how that is playable...do they use 2♦ as some form of punt?
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I have talked myself out of the winning, mundane, low spade lead, giving declarer his 8th trick but not his 9th.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#3
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 7,786
- Joined: 2004-September-05
- Gender:Male
- Location:Galloway NJ USA
-
Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.
Posted 2014-March-18, 10:40
I can understand Mike's reluctance to lead a spade, but I have no such reluctance (rightly or wrongly). I lead the "mundane" low spade.
I am also intrigued at the 3♣ game forcing. I don't recall ever seeing that. What was your opponent's general approach (system)? On this auction, I play 2♦ as extended new minor forcing. Perhaps they play it as extended new minor less than forcing.
I am also intrigued at the 3♣ game forcing. I don't recall ever seeing that. What was your opponent's general approach (system)? On this auction, I play 2♦ as extended new minor forcing. Perhaps they play it as extended new minor less than forcing.
#4
- Experimental biddicist
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 1,909
- Joined: 2010-January-02
- Gender:Male
Posted 2014-March-18, 11:39
I'm choosing between high and low D - if a S was setting this, P might have found a 1-level overcall.
Probably going with AD to avoid blocking the suit/catch doubleton honour/give myself an outside chance of a killing switch if P discourages and I haven't already blown the defence.
The GF 3♣ worries me since if their lower bids would have been artificial, it seems like there might be negative inferences available that we're not informed of. I'm assuming they had an invite of some kind available if they wanted it?
Probably going with AD to avoid blocking the suit/catch doubleton honour/give myself an outside chance of a killing switch if P discourages and I haven't already blown the defence.
The GF 3♣ worries me since if their lower bids would have been artificial, it seems like there might be negative inferences available that we're not informed of. I'm assuming they had an invite of some kind available if they wanted it?
The "4♥ is a transfer to 4♠" award goes to Jinksy - PhilKing
#5
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 14,900
- Joined: 2004-May-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Portugal
- Interests:Everything!
Posted 2014-March-18, 13:39
I'm going to make the stupid lead of the A♠, on Bird/Anthias grounds... lol.
As to 3♣ being game-forcing, there is school of thought that does this. With an invite you bid 3rd/4th suit and follow-up with support. The meta rule is:
"New suit followed by support of opener's 1st suit at the 3-level is GF."
It has some advantages, namely simplifying GF auctions. I've been thinking about this switch for a while, but never got around to write down a formal text on it.
As to 3♣ being game-forcing, there is school of thought that does this. With an invite you bid 3rd/4th suit and follow-up with support. The meta rule is:
"New suit followed by support of opener's 1st suit at the 3-level is GF."
It has some advantages, namely simplifying GF auctions. I've been thinking about this switch for a while, but never got around to write down a formal text on it.
#6
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,555
- Joined: 2007-January-22
Posted 2014-March-18, 14:06
Interesting problem!
Results of simulation with the following contraints:
-W is 12-15hcp with 4-5 hearts, 3+clubs without 5-4/55majors
-E is 11-15hcp, without 3 hearts, without 4spades, without 5diamonds and without 6-4 shape in minors
Winning lead:
spade: 329 (low is 329, A is 324)
heart: 165
diamond: 323 (Ace, low is 204)
club: 118
So I lead a spade.
Results of simulation with the following contraints:
-W is 12-15hcp with 4-5 hearts, 3+clubs without 5-4/55majors
-E is 11-15hcp, without 3 hearts, without 4spades, without 5diamonds and without 6-4 shape in minors
Winning lead:
spade: 329 (low is 329, A is 324)
heart: 165
diamond: 323 (Ace, low is 204)
club: 118
So I lead a spade.
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 3,240
- Joined: 2012-June-25
Posted 2014-March-18, 15:23
FWIW I play 3♣ as GF here. This is how it works for me:
2♦ = puppet to 2♥ (opener bids 2♥ by default, breaks show outliers)
2♥ = invitational
2♠ - GF with ♦ values/suit
2NT = bat GF
3♣ = nat GF
after 2♦-2♥:
2♠ = GF with spade values/suit
2NT = inv
3♣ = inv
3♦ = inv 4-6
There is various other exotica, but that is the gist of it.
Back to the problem - I lead the diamond ace.
2♦ = puppet to 2♥ (opener bids 2♥ by default, breaks show outliers)
2♥ = invitational
2♠ - GF with ♦ values/suit
2NT = bat GF
3♣ = nat GF
after 2♦-2♥:
2♠ = GF with spade values/suit
2NT = inv
3♣ = inv
3♦ = inv 4-6
There is various other exotica, but that is the gist of it.
Back to the problem - I lead the diamond ace.
#8
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2014-March-18, 16:43
bluecalm, on 2014-March-18, 14:06, said:
-E is 11-15hcp, without 3 hearts, without 4spades, without 5diamonds and without 6-4 shape in minors
So he could be 3244?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#9
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,555
- Joined: 2007-January-22
Posted 2014-March-18, 17:04
gnasher, on 2014-March-18, 16:43, said:
So he could be 3244?
No, I forgot to mention 5+ clubs but put that in constraints as the very first thing.
#10
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2014-March-18, 18:01
ArtK78, on 2014-March-18, 10:40, said:
I can understand Mike's reluctance to lead a spade, but I have no such reluctance (rightly or wrongly). I lead the "mundane" low spade.
I am also intrigued at the 3♣ game forcing. I don't recall ever seeing that. What was your opponent's general approach (system)? On this auction, I play 2♦ as extended new minor forcing. Perhaps they play it as extended new minor less than forcing.
I am also intrigued at the 3♣ game forcing. I don't recall ever seeing that. What was your opponent's general approach (system)? On this auction, I play 2♦ as extended new minor forcing. Perhaps they play it as extended new minor less than forcing.
Eastern Scientific
Richard Pavlicek (Sr) snd Rich Pavlicek (Jr) is your opponents
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#11
- 5-level belongs to me
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 9,128
- Joined: 2004-August-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Glasgow Scotland
- Interests:Poems Computers
Posted 2014-March-18, 18:18
MrAce, on 2014-March-18, 03:53, said:
#12
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,728
- Joined: 2003-March-07
- Gender:Male
- Location:Laos
- Interests:Wagner and Bridge
Posted 2014-March-19, 02:57
Small S. Nothing else appeals.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
#13
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 4,531
- Joined: 2005-October-09
- Location:Netherlands
Posted 2014-March-19, 03:23
In my opinion this is between a small spade and a top heart. Declarer often has 3=1=3=6 and then a heart might be needed. But I will go with a spade.
I am seriously considering leading the ♠10, and I wish I had the guts for it, but I will go with the conventional 3 or 4.
Rik
I am seriously considering leading the ♠10, and I wish I had the guts for it, but I will go with the conventional 3 or 4.
Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
#15
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,015
- Joined: 2005-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
- Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.
Posted 2014-March-19, 09:48
WGF_Flame, on 2014-March-19, 08:47, said:
I was having a memory lapse when I posted originally: in fact, in a partnership I played in the late 1990's we had an entire structure built around using 2♦ as a punt, with an artificial 2N, and a gf 3♣ raise
A vague memory must have existed since I did refer to the 2♦ punt as the explanation.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#16
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2014-March-19, 13:48
This is the whole hand.
I led top ♥
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#17
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2014-March-19, 14:05
bluecalm, on 2014-March-18, 17:04, said:
No, I forgot to mention 5+ clubs but put that in constraints as the very first thing.
But he could be 3235?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#18
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 241
- Joined: 2003-December-19
Posted 2014-March-19, 23:11
i lead spade.
as I see it there are 2 options here:
1. they have 9 tricks in their 2 suits, in this case spade is better then heart, althogh diamond A is slightly better
2. partner has 1 trick in their suit, in such case if I lead spade I have the best chance to take 3 spades 1 diamond and 1 in partner hand.
as I see it there are 2 options here:
1. they have 9 tricks in their 2 suits, in this case spade is better then heart, althogh diamond A is slightly better
2. partner has 1 trick in their suit, in such case if I lead spade I have the best chance to take 3 spades 1 diamond and 1 in partner hand.
#19
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,866
- Joined: 2008-July-13
Posted 2014-March-20, 21:27
i won't comment as to what i would lead - it's not tricky to get hands right having seen all 4 of them but in general i very rarely lead passively when opps have a 6 card suit which looks like running based on my holding. xx of clubs over is about as bad a holding as it's possible to get.
#20
- World International Master without a clue
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 17,404
- Joined: 2003-November-13
- Gender:Male
- Location:madrid
Posted 2014-March-21, 01:38
If you give partner those ♥KJ heart won't look so passive anymore
IMP
3♣ was GF, expert opponents.