[ggwhiz]

MrAce, on 2014-March-09, 06:12, said:

12 hcp making game force is something i had to get use to in USA.

Interesting notes here on the style difference if you open this or not.

In the 2/1 style that passes this, not only do we game force with 12 but we balance more aggressively too.

As long as the openers reverse those trends it's equally effective and necessary playing precision.

[bluecalm]

I don't think it matters if it's Precision or 2/1. People always say that but their reasons are usually not convincing. The problem with opening is that you end up in game opposite 12pc. You end up in game opposite that in both systems as Precision players usually don't have any mechanism allowing them to cater for those 11-12 hands (Meckstroth Rodwell for example don't).
I would open because most people I play with believe it's winning bridge and expect me to. I am not convinced I think it's close with spades as this is one suit difficult to preempt. I think it's style issue, very difficult to judge which style wins long term so maybe it's better to just do what you are more comfortable with.

Quote

Partners need to stop going g.f. with a blah 12 count or 12 support points.

But if you play 15-17 NT you could end up in 26hcp 1NT if it goes 1S - 1N.
It's easy to say "stop GF'ing with 12pc" but about all elite players do just that with some rare exceptions for 12hcp hands with singleton in partners suit. The reason is that there is no way to cater for those 11-12 hands unless you rebuild the whole system to allow it but then you can just as well open 10-15 or 9-15 even.

[aguahombre]

bluecalm, on 2014-March-09, 09:57, said:

But if you play 15-17 NT you could end up in 26hcp 1NT if it goes 1S - 1N.
It's easy to say "stop GF'ing with 12pc" but about all elite players do just that with some rare exceptions for 12hcp hands with singleton in partners suit. The reason is that there is no way to cater for those 11-12 hands unless you rebuild the whole system to allow it but then you can just as well open 10-15 or 9-15 even.

Things as usual are dependent upon context. 14-12 combos don't stop in 1NT in our world. The 12 count bids a forcing NT, then rebids 2NT to invite game. So, we arrive in game with the 25/26 totals (some 13-11 as well). But if pairs have no way to invite game with balanced responding hands of 11-12 strength, I guess it is a problem for them. Their collateral problem is bouncing to game on 11-12's; but, to each his own.

[mycroft]

Meckstroth-Rodwell are arguably the best players of bad contracts in the world, and have spent their entire career pushing everybody, including world champions around. And they go down a lot - if you're perfect on defence. I'm sure the rest of the Precision players who fit that criteria are quite happy with that style.

I don't qualify for the former, and while I like pushing my opponents around, 22-24 point games aren't my speciality. So I do, in fact, have ways to not GF on a random 12.

[jmcilkley]

In 2nd seat it's a pass for me. There are 11 points but that Qx doesn't look worth 2. More importantly it is a 9 loser hand and for me an opening is 7 loser or better.
In 3rd seat after 2 passes i would open it 1s and I would be happy to overcall 1s.
If my partner has an opening hand then we will get to the right contract. If he hasn;t then I'm happy not to be a dubious contract when vulnerable.

sheilafran, on 2014-March-03, 11:50, said:

♠AJ10xx
♥Qx
♦A86
♣986

[lycier]

sheilafran, on 2014-March-03, 11:50, said:

♠AJ10xx
♥Qx
♦A86
♣986

For me,I obey 22 rule of opening.
For this hand ,it is only 21 rule.
For the second seat,I 'd regard it as a serious opening seat,never make light opening.
For Vul vs Non-Vul, I'd open weak two bid - 2♠ as my choice.

[P_Marlowe]

No.

But if you play a semiforcing 1NT response, i.e. 11-12 bal. responder respond 1NT,
than why not.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[billw55]

lycier, on 2014-March-24, 05:47, said:

For me,I obey 22 rule of opening.
For this hand ,it is only 21 rule.
For the second seat,I 'd regard it as a serious opening seat,never make light opening.
For Vul vs Non-Vul, I'd open weak two bid - 2♠ as my choice.

Playing a non-precision system, I can accept passing this hand, although I would open it myself.

However, I think opening this as a weak 2♠ is much worse than either passing or opening 1♠.

[akhare]

Two Aces, nice texture to the boss suit and as per the OP, a system that can handle light openings (hopefully with a sensible approach like semi-forcing 1N), all point to a 1♠ opening.