[Shugart23]

I've never seen any guidance on the stregnth one needs for a negative double when you are playing precision (where partner opens 1H or 1S). Got into a little trouble last night when partner opened 1S and RHO overcalled 2H, which got me thinking on this topic.

I was 4-4 in the Minors, with singleton Spade, along with 4 mediocre Hearts headed by J....My other HCP were 7 in the minor suits
I chose to pass and partner dutifully doubled (which I really didnt want, but expected her to do), I bid 2NT and went down for a zero.

In Standard American, this all seems pretty normal (I might have negative doubled instead of passing in SA). But given partner's opening bid is capped at 15 HCP, it seems I need better stregnth to do the negative double and in the event that I pass, mabye the opener isn't really as obligated to reopen the bidding as in SA.

Anyway, I was wondering if any of the advanced players could make some comments if they modify their negative double agreements from SA bidding. Thank you

[helene_t]

Partner's double is probably ok but maybe it's better to play your 2NT as scrambling rather than natural?

[Endymion77]

You need the same strength as you would in standard. Since you need to force to the 3 level, 7 points would not cut it. 2NT with Jxxx hearts and shortness in your partner's suit is probably not very good - where are your tricks coming from in NT? Just bid 3m and hope for the best. In fact, it might make sense to play 2NT as "bid your better minor" and not natural in this situation.

As for re-opening, in Precision it's actually even more important to re-open than in standard as the opening hand is limited and it's much easier for responder to pass for penalty knowing it's a misfit and there's no game for their side, or to stay away from a bad contract knowing opener is limited.

[DJNeill]

Requirements are similar as normal.

Note the difference between a negative double of (2♣) and a negative double of (2♥) since one forces you possibly to the 3-level (or an uncomfortable choice) while the other leaves a lot of room to stay/wiggle at the 2-level.

In your case, 1444 7 count, you've got about half the deck, but without a fit, and good defense, you don't mind defending so much. Partner's double is unfortunate but you don't get rich defending 2H, especially at MP. Unless partner can Pass (now you might have them sunk in a 5-1 fit).

I think 3 of your best minor (if your hearts are Jxxx) is definitely best - your stopper is shady and both hands have ruffing values.

[TylerE]

This isn't really a Precision vs Std question. It's yet another occurance of what I call "Oh S--T 2NT", a favored big of B/N/I players that invariable gets them in tons of trouble. Basically, if you're considering 2NT in a situation like this, think again. Either your ♥ holding is good enough to pass the X, or it isn't, in which case you REALLY don't want to ne in 2NT with no tricks.
"

[Shugart23]

( I don't know what B/N/I stands for. ) We play Lebensohl when it goes 1S by partner then 2H by opponents and it's my turn to bid. I think I like the pass by me, the reopening double by partner and then the 2NT scramble suggestion in this situation, since neither of my 4 card Minors was remarkable. Clearly, my 2NT bid s***ed.

Thanks all; I always get good advice by the community.

[mycroft]

B/N/I = beginner/novice/intermediate. It is possible to be any one or a combination of these.

I understand the idea behind "oh .... 2NT" - that's better than the description I got from Jeff Goldsmith's Imperious Rules: "In a balancing situation, 2NT is almost never natural. It is also not necessarily forcing." I'd be willing to raise that to "In competition."

Effectively, if you're bidding 2NT to play, you're wrong. You might be less wrong than any other option you may have, but it's still not where you ever *want* to play.